Well said! Id put mike gessel, joeW and probably a few other first yr starters that i cant think of into that category as well.
What should be taken from this game.
- Thread starter Bulldogs1974
- Start date
There’s a very big difference between having a “plan” and promising a starting job to somebody Before they set foot on campus.
This is quite the mess now. Honestly JBO has been such a failure at the 2 I get the strategy of trying him 10-15 minutes at the 1 position a game. With Ulis/Perkins in the game the can put Jbo on the opposing PG on D and let the taller Ulis/Perkins opposite of him guard the SG. Ulis obviously plays the 1 when he comes in.
My problem is Jbo getting 36 minutes, it's ridculous. It really should be 20. The lineup with Ulis, JT, Sandfort, Kris/Pat, Murray offsets the shooting issues at guard when your 3,4,5 can shoot. You can mix in Rebraca with this lineup as well and be fine. You get better defense, better rebounding (both Ulis and JT are better rebounders than Jbo).
I liked what I saw out of Ulis last night, his confidence has been low, his shot looks capable if he gains confidence. His been lost other games so we will see Thursday if he's on the uptick.
I still can't believe the number of people that defend the massive Jbo minutes, going back 25 Big Ten Games he is now 30% from 3. That is a large sample, this isn't going to magically get better folks.
My problem is Jbo getting 36 minutes, it's ridculous. It really should be 20. The lineup with Ulis, JT, Sandfort, Kris/Pat, Murray offsets the shooting issues at guard when your 3,4,5 can shoot. You can mix in Rebraca with this lineup as well and be fine. You get better defense, better rebounding (both Ulis and JT are better rebounders than Jbo).
I liked what I saw out of Ulis last night, his confidence has been low, his shot looks capable if he gains confidence. His been lost other games so we will see Thursday if he's on the uptick.
I still can't believe the number of people that defend the massive Jbo minutes, going back 25 Big Ten Games he is now 30% from 3. That is a large sample, this isn't going to magically get better folks.
A. Ulis in extended minutes discussing how those minutes gave him confidence to not play tentative (Ouch Fran)
B. Ulis is a full grown Man at 6 3” and 195. He can definitely play at the rim and has a body to play big inside, he actually gets a lot of good looks , good in balance jumpers close, and looks to finish like below
There is a lot to like about this kids defense, size and scoring , given confidence that Billy Taylor gave him…
Having a plan and telling a recruit that they will have the chance to compete for playing time is not the same as promising playing time to recruits. I agree that Fran and many other coaches have a plan for how they believe they can use a recruit and promise that they will have the opportunity to compete.
I believe most people on this board believe JBo is playing too many minutes. I do not think he deserves the amount of vitriol being thrown his way by some fans though, especially after a game that Iowa won. JBo has limitations and is not the player he was before the hip surgeries. Some people refuse to acknowledge that he brings anything to the team though.
I 100% agree on this. I think some of us would also like the same opportunity for Touissant. Again, I’ll go back to Bohannon’s quote about why he came back for a 6th year. It was to play the 2 and he told Joe T the keys were being handed over to him. Guess Fran has decided otherwise. And for some of you who think Joe T will still be jumping around and cheering the rest of the season if he’s playing 6-8 minutes a game I doubt it. And I guarantee he will be gone, which at this point might be best for all involved.
Only in wording. Of course it would be foolish to “promise” anything… do you think that first big class Fran got with Woodbury and Gesell committed thinking that there was a good chance that they wouldn’t be logging heavy minutes in year one? Fran likely did everything BUT promise a starting job
You are not just doubling down, you are tripling down. Incredible.
And your opinions are lousy.
And again, you get called out for your stupidity, and you are left with nothing but comments about teenage girls. Talk about fragile.
Not really if he tells them, if you do A and B you’ll start from day 1, which i would argue every coach in the country says to certain recruits that are really high on their list. Hell, some coaches are willing to throw $ at players illegally to come to their school, it’s not beyond possibility that Fran tells certain players they’ll start day1. Id actually be disappointed if he doesn’t tell CERTAIN recruits that!
I would wager every coach would make similar “promises”, but having a plan for a player is not the same as promising them a spot.
and yeah, I’m sure gesell and Woodbury were prepared to start - not hard, considering the state of the roster at that point! Worlds different from promising a starters spot to a PG recruit when you have two on the roster already.
2 on the roster…that Fran has felt comfortable moving back to bench players behind…Jordan Bohannon! Obviously doesn’t look to favorably toward either of them at this point!
Let's be clear. Slim45 said, and I quote, my speculation is fran promised bowen the starting job next yr.
If anyone thinks Fran is promising starting jobs to any prospect in the hopes of landing them then you're out of your mind.
Sober Teacher, you nailed it.
I am not sure why UnoHawkeye can't grasp this. Both Slim45 and UnoHawkeye are just flat out wrong.
Again, very large difference between knowing you’re going to have a chance at a starting spot vs guaranteeing them one.
and its not like Jordan is a non entity who came from nowhere.
im sure Bowen was watched video of both these guys….well before yesterday, and believes that he’s better than them. and I’m sure Fran told him he’ll have a chance to beat them out if he works hard. I think you are 1000% wrong if you believe anything was promised him without him having to earn it.
That's fair. I would say Joe T is a much better transition defender. He forces a lot of turnovers on the press and just on hustle plays trailing the play and poking the ball away.
I think my responses come off as saying Joe T is light years ahead of Ulis which isn't what I was trying to convey. What I was trying to convey is that at worse, he's even and merits a starting spot and a lot of minutes. It boggles my mind that JBo has garnered so many minutes in Big Ten play when it's so clear we have better options. It's hurting this year's squad and it's hurting younger player development that would pay dividends in future seasons.
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Joe T, Ulis, Kris, and Sandfort have all shown they are a better option than JBo. They provide as much offense and play far better defense and rebound better.
The only thing JBo can do better in theory is hit 3s and he isn't doing that. He should be playing 10 minutes a game max.
Per the thread title, "What should we take away from this game?"
That those of us who predicted, and still believe, that this club is NIT bound are correct..
That those of us who predicted, and still believe, that this club is NIT bound are correct..
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Slim45 ridiculously wrote, and I quote, my speculation is fran promised bowen the starting job next yr.
You then wrote, and I quote, If you think that Fran’s “plan” for a guy like Tyler Cook or Adam Woodbury wasn’t something along the lines of “come in and put in the work, and you’ll be a four year starter here unless you go pro first,” then you’re out of your mind."
Why did you not come out and say Fran would never promise Dasonte Bowen a starting job? Instead, you brought up past prospects (like Dasonte), who Fran also desperately wanted. You put "plan" in parentheses. Why would you do that other than to make it appear that it was much more than a plan?
Slim45 then replied to you, and I quote, "Well said! Id put mike gessel, joeW and probably a few other first yr starters that i cant think of into that category as well." You then liked this post.
So, it's pretty clear, based on your interactions, that you and Slim45 are on the same page. You are both on the wrong page.
Neither is Jbo anymore apparently.
Because, while I don’t believe that Fran promises starting roles to his players, I do believe that Slim’s premise was accurate that Fran has a plan to start certain players from day 1. Thank you for confirming that I didn’t say anything inaccurate, but just being mad that I took his side in the conversation
And Kris isn’t a 5 but spends the majority of his minutes there. It’s not like playing players out of their natural positions is new to Fran. In fact Jordan himself has been playing out of his natural position the entire year! If there’s a chance that somebody playing out of position could be more effective than somebody playing in position, then it could be worth a shot
If Fran isn’t telling certain players that the starting role is theirs to lose from day1 i think he’s doing himself a huge disservice recruiting. Do i think he did it with Bowen? No, highly unlikely because he isn’t on that elite level. But ill use Jalen Suggs as an example, just because he had some interest in us early on. If Fran isn’t offering a guy like that the freaking moon to come to Iowa he’s doing it wrong.
Win or lose, people are gonna bitch about minutes. PMac is playing well, so they have backed off on him for the time being.
These posters who bitch about who plays have never coached a meaningful game in their life and they don't know what's going on internally. The coaches know the most about this team and people are crazy if they think that they are not playing the players they feel will help them win games.
And it makes you wonder if tearing JBo down makes some of these posters feel better about themselves. Crazy, sad, and pathetic.
It's not at Jbo, it's at Fran. Loyalty usually is a great trait, Fran just takes it to far were it becomes a fault.
How dare we fans have an objective opinion and a discussion...
Neither is JBo.
There are different ways to play basketball...you don't need a true SG. (Even though I'd argue Sandfort is a pure SG and Kris is more of a shooter than slasher.)
And you know perfectly well he’s playing the 5 out of necessity than any other reason. I laugh tho at saying Joe’s been playing out of position this year, when for the past four years I’ve seen so many posters telling us he wasn’t a true PG.
And what follows was Slim45's premise, which you now clearly state that you feel is accurate:
My speculation is fran promised bowen the starting job next yr.
I thought I corrected that , he said 12 yo girl which to be accurate would be a pre-teen. Nobody reads anymore. I give up
No, I clearly responded to a post that was stating that Fran had never promised players a starting position before. I never once have mentioned Dasonte Bowen. And you of all people, with how much time you spend on this board, should know what a big fan of Toussaint I am. Why would I suggest that Fran promise Bowen a starting spot? If you are going to keep putting words into my mouth, then do me a favor and stop responding to my posts
Technically, he’s not playing the 5 out of necessity because we have three other scholarship 5’s on the roster. He’s playing the 5 because he’s the best man at that position
I assume that by “Joe,” you mean “Jordan,” to which I would respond that I was wrong, because I was one of those people. As it turns out, Bohannon is better with the ball in his hands versus spot up shooting. That doesn’t make him the BEST option at either the one or two spot, let alone for the usage he’s receiving
I do enjoy conversing Hawk sports with you because you are capable of discussion that doesn’t devolve into stamping feet. I can also appreciate that you’re standing up for Jordan, who is a good Hawkeye going through a rough patch. I’m checking out. Have a good night
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