Bye. You stated that you wouldn't have gotten the vaccine in hindsight. You don't follow along.
Who's Getting the Fall COVID Vaccine?
- Thread starter What Would Jesus Do?
- Start date
I answered your question. Will you admit that there are risks associated with taking the vaccine? Do you recognize that some people have worse symptoms from the vaccine than they did with actual covid? (Even when they acquired covid before receiving a vaccine)
Why? This is the same information other countries are giving. It's ok to disagree with it, but at least give a reason why. Do you think you know better than the UK health department?
@Whiskeydeltadeltatango showing how stupid he is along with being a shitty Dad. That poor kid of his was born behind the 8 ball. Destined to suck.
Perhaps the only person dumber was the woman who spread her legs and allowed a total zero to knock her up.
Perhaps the only person dumber was the woman who spread her legs and allowed a total zero to knock her up.
Which, whether you were vaccinated, or not, has been demonstrated to wane over time. That immunity is basically "temporary", and if we get another wave, lots more people will get very sick w/o boosters (just like annual flu shots)
There are risks with ANY vaccine. They are far far lower than getting the actual disease unvaccinated.
Personally, I had Covid at least once (found out via a blood donation) with no symptoms at all, this was before vaccines in Nov 2020. I then did the J&J in Mar 2021 at noon on a Friday and was very sick, like in bed and miserable from when I woke up feeling terrible at 2AM Saturday until Monday morning. Sunday night I thought no way I would be able to work Monday, but by morning I was 85% better. Then I was fine until I got the Pfizer booster in Nov 2021, and it was same thing - I scheduled it for a Friday afternoon and felt fine until early Saturday morning and then was sick and miserable until Monday morning. I then got the bivalent booster in October 2022 and it was the same thing (3:30pm appt) except Sunday was not quite as miserable, I was up and able to do a bit but felt bad. I have no idea why this happens, I have had annual flu shots, I did the old less effective shingles vax and then later the better 2-dose shingles vax, etc and have never had any side effects from any vaccine. If I ever had Covid a second time I had no symptoms. The rest of my family members did not have side effects (after the original first shot my wife didn't feel great on the day after, but still worked), especially my extremely elderly parents.
I believe there have been indications that a Covid infection can predispose you to a shingles outbreak. Preventing vaccination for both will minimize that risk.
There are viral precedents for this: measles essentially "erases" your immune system memory. While Covid is not being observed to have this same drastic effect, it is possible it may have a smaller/similar effect in predisposing to you other infections.
While I agree with most of your post, I'd like to offer my own story.
I started with J&J and have since had both Moderna (twice) and Pfizer (the bivalent), and am eligible for another bivalent.
The mRNA vaccines absolutely knocked me on my ass. More than a day of serious aches, pains, headaches, and fever to 101. Lasted about 38 hours and then dissipated quickly.
J&J was much worse than an ordinary flu jab but not nearly as bad as the mRNA shots. Moderna was worse than Pfizer - which I'm guessing is simply because Pfizer uses smaller doses, but might be adjuvant differences or something else.
The relevance to your comment is that even though I had a much worse time with the vaccines than any of my friends, it was still an easy choice to make.
On the other hand, I'm waffling about getting a 2nd bivalent or the fall jab. Why? Because I've seen some worrying reports about mRNA complications. Meanwhile, even though my antibodies will have waned, my T-cell defenses should still be good. Meaning the risk-benefit isn't the same as it was earlier in the pandemic.
Sounds a lot like my experience - except that Shingrix was even worse for me than the mRNA COVID vaccines. I seldom have more than a sore arm from other vaccines, so both of those were shockers for me.
What surprises me about your account is that you had symptomless COVID. I've been worrying that having a bad reaction to the vaccine might predict a worse outcome if I ever catch COVID.
I wonder how many other people have had your experience of easy COVID but hard vaccine?
I have never had shingles, but I did get the old shingles vax when I was around 52 or whenever it was approved for 50-year-olds vs the old 60 rule of thumb. Then a couple years ago my doctor said I should get the new and improved two-dose series as it is way more effective, so I did that (I asked about getting it on top of the original and he said he had done it, so I figured it was ok). Definitely the sickest I have been in years (but only 48 hours or so) was after each Covid vaccine. I have heard people complain about flu shot side effects, but I have never had any from that one.
I have always wondered that too and wondered what is different about my system than others. I had someone tell me that they thought if the vaccines made me that sick then they thought Covid would be very bad for me as well, but my one known case of Covid was so surprising, I would have never known had I not donated blood. My wife is a teacher, and she seems to be the same way, her doctor tells her she has almost certainly had it being in the classroom from Aug 2020 - through now, but to her knowledge she hasn't. And she would do a home test anytime she got any type of symptoms.
So, the vaccine makes you feel more sick than actually catching Covid. And, you'll still catch Covid after being vaccinated. And, the protection from the vaccine doesn't last very long.
Yeah, I think I'm done. But, get a booster every other month if that's your thing. Just sign up for studies, because the rest of us want to see what happens to you.
Yeah, I think I'm done. But, get a booster every other month if that's your thing. Just sign up for studies, because the rest of us want to see what happens to you.
Shingles vaccines have been the worst for me, as well.
Covid has never been any worse than a flu shot.
Only for some. As far as I can tell, it's the other way around for most. But I wish there were good studies on that.
The important difference, though, is that the risk of serious complications and even death are much higher from catching COVID. But those risks are pretty low now - which was absolutely NOT the case early in the pandemic - so if you are in a low risk group, you might reasonably consider skipping the vaccine.
Obviously you can choose to skip the latest vaccines even if you are high risk, but maybe you shouldn't.
The most reasonable "reluctant" authority - as opposed to deniers - is probably Offit, the interviewee in the OP video. I suggest you watch it.
I'm in the "low risk" groups of dying of influenza, but I still get an annual flu shot.
If my PCP says get a Covid booster this fall, that's what I'm doing. He recommends an annual flu shot for all of his patients who are eligible (e.g. don't have condition that would prevent it or have had a bad reaction in the past)
The Shringrix vaccine is the only one I have ever bothered to report to my pharmacist (who I believe is supposed to pass those reports on to the authorities).
After getting slammed by Shingrix, I looked up side effects and learned that 1 out of 6 recipients has severe issues. Seems unreasonably high for an "approved" vaccine.
Then again, I have had 2 shingles attacks. "Attack" is definitely the right word. I thought I might die and was in severe distress for many days. So . . . 3-5 days of feeling miserable from the vaccine is worth it, if it minimizes actual number and severity of shingles attacks.
Which is the same logic that has me getting those mRNA vaccines that I'd rather not have to get. I worry about the possible negatives, but still like the idea of not dying.
True, but - correct me if I'm wrong - flu shots don't have a meaningful rate of serious complications like myocarditis, clotting, strokes, spikes in tissues, or "Long Flu."
Nor are we talking about mRNA flu shots. Although it won't surprise me if those are in our future.
Plus, flu shots are a piece of cake compared with COVID or Shingrix.
Covid shots don't either.
At least in comparison to the virus they protect you against.
Rates are LOWER than the disease.
Considering that you are well-read on the science, I'm a little surprised you'd simply accept his recommendation. What would you do if his rec disagrees with the science you have read?
I mean obviously his rec should count. But how much?
This was a winning argument - for me and most sensible people - early in the pandemic.
It's less compelling now, especially for younger folks without comorbidities.
The reasons being that most people have some level of immunity now - from vaccines, catching COVID or both - and the latest variants seem less deadly/harmful.
Of course I could be wrong on those points, but I think that's correct.
For many, we've transitioned from a small danger (vax) vs big danger (COVID) to a more balanced risk comparison. In which case, the argument becomes why voluntarily take a definite small risk (the vax), when you might not face the other small risk (COVID) at all?
Covid is still killing young adults at 5x and 10x the rates flu does.
Ergo - if getting a flu shot sounds like a good idea to you, getting a Covid booster would pretty much be a no-brainer.
Why?
His recommendations have always been consistent with the science.
The science states that the risks of the vaccine are far lower than from the disease, and we know that immunity for either wanes over time.
But that ignores the known - if rare - bad effects of the mRNA vaccines.
Which is why I hope a Novavax style vaccine is approved this fall. I worry less about its mechanism of action. Just as I worry less about the typical flu shot's mechanism of action.
I'm willing to get a very-low-risk flu shot to spare myself a couple of weeks of misery (and a very low risk of death). I'm also willing to get a very-low-risk version of the COVID shot to spare myself the somewhat higher risk of death. But I'm less easy about taking the higher risk mRNA shots.
I'll probably still do it. After all, the mRNA shots will probably be the only ones approved. But the difference is it was a no-brainer early in the pandemic, and it isn't any more. IMO
No; it doesn't.
Those are rare than, and less severe than the effects of the virus when your immunity has waned.
I have previously mentioned that people should spend lots of time around school age kids (not in a bad way) because the constant exposure to low amounts of virus will improve your immune system. Most people who start working with kids will have an adjustment period where they are often sick for the first year, but then very rarely get sick once their body develops antibodies. The same thing goes for covid.
If you are a homebody without much exposure to the world, then a vaccine may be beneficial. If you are high risk with multiple comorbidities, the vaccine may be beneficial. If you are healthy with frequent exposure to people, then you likely will not receive much benefit.
Obviously this is not medical advice since I am not your doctor, but just a general overview.
I do find it interesting that some people will continue to get the vaccine despite having severe symptoms after the vaccine. Make sure you mention this to your doctor. Many of the primary care doctors I know will skip the vaccine when the patient has a history of a severe reaction to it.
Early intervention when you get covid is more important than the vaccine itself.
Low fluid volume, low blood pressure, kidney damage, abnormal heart rhythms, liver failure, respiratory failure, abnormal electrolytes (specifically potassium, sodium, magnesium), superimposed bacterial pneumonia on top of covid are all conditions that dramatically increase your risk of death due to covid.
The conditions above are all directly or indirectly caused from having covid and are all preventable.
If you have covid, the big thing is to continue to eat and drink like normal, continue normal activities (but stay away from healthy people to protect them) clear secretions out of your lungs and cough and deep breath hourly. If your mental status changes, you can't breathe, your temp rises to >38.5 or you can't do the things above, then go to a Dr.
Comorbidities make symptoms progress quicker and there is less ability for your body to handle what is going on.
No; it doesn't "go for Covid", nor does it "go for influenza".
When your immune system is exposed to a viral antigen that it has not seen before, you're going to get sick. Period.
Influenza and Covid are not "the common cold", no matter how many times you want to claim it.
No
The vaccine is the "earliest intervention" you can provide yourself to prepare for a virus.
90% of Influenza deaths are 65+. Influenza is similar to covid in that if you are young and/or healthy, your risk of dying is very low.
And 10% is >120,000 people, which is far far worse than any flu for younger people.
No, it is not.
It is 5x to 10x less deadly than Covid.
Even looking at only 2023 data.
Humans have this wonderful thing called an immune system. We do not automatically get sick when exposed to a virus. There are a lot of variables involved.
I'm not sure how you can claim to have credibility when you cant understand basic medical concepts.
Probably, maybe. Not sure I really have much to gain from it. But doubtful I have much to lose, either.
What killed a lot of people -- young people, too -- in the 1918 pandemic was an overactive immune response that was elicited by the virus. It just depends on the virus you're look at when you're consider immune system.
