Who's Getting the Fall COVID Vaccine?
- Thread starter What Would Jesus Do?
- Start date
Wrong
It lowered the R0
Your inability to understand what the R0 is, is a "you" problem
Not a lot of fun to be a 40 yr old with renal failure, though, even if you survive....
What do you consider an acceptable level of risk? Do you think it is possible to achieve 0% risk of dying with the vaccine? Because I can tell you that even vaccinated people die from covid.
You are ignoring the difference between absolute risk reduction and relative risk reduction.
So let's pretend the covid vaccine actually is 80% effective at reducing death from covid (RRR). Since the actual risk is so low to start with, the absolute risk reduction is closer to a 0.1-.16% risk reduction, or ARR.
Relative Risk Reduction (RRR) = 80%
Absolute Risk Reduction (ARR) = 0.1-0.16%
If you were diagnosed with cancer, and the treatment was only 0.16% effective, would you take the treatment?
Outcome Reporting Bias in COVID-19 mRNA Vaccine Clinical Trials
Relative risk reduction and absolute risk reduction measures in the evaluation of clinical trial data are poorly understood by health professionals and the public. The absence of reported absolute risk reduction in COVID-19 vaccine clinical trials can ...
www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov
When the risks of "driving w/o a seatbelt" are higher than driving with one, I take the lower risk
When the risks of an adverse reaction from a vaccine are lower than the risks of unvaccinated complications from the virus, I choose the vaccine.
Pretty simply stuff, really. I'll take the lower risks, wherever practical.
I see how you conviently ignored the part about the ARR. Smart.. if it doesn't fit your opinion then ignore it.
Maybe the other article was too technical for you to understand. This one breaks down the difference a bit more.
You also assume that the prevalence of covid has been a fixed rate since 2020. It has not. I assu.e you recognize that covid does not have the same effect now as it did in 2020. Heck, even Biden has acknowledged that the covid emergency is over, but Joes Place still knows better. Lol
Absolute Risk Reduction versus Relative Risk Reduction: Is One Better for COVID vaccines? - Medcram Blog
In this video, Dr. Roger Seheult of MedCram explains what the difference is between absolute risk reduction (ARR) versus relative risk reduction (RRR) and whether one is better than the other when discussing COVID vaccines.
blog.medcram.com
It is "absolute risk reduction"
Because the risks from the virus w/o vaccine protection are worse than the risks from the vaccines.
And you've completely backed away from your "renal failure" arguments, which vaccines will also protect against.
LOLWUT?
Covid is now "endemic"
It is going to be "seasonal", like flu. And most doctors recommend "flu shots" to protect you from the worst of the flu.
Covid is 5x to 10x more deadly than flu, and far more likely to cause long-term sequelae (like renal failure).
What are you talking about with the renal failure argument? That was a specific example of how organs fail when they have covid and what ultimately leads to the patients death. There is no argument there.
This shows your complete and utter lack of knowledge about this subject. It is impossible to have an adult discussion when the other person has a 3rd grade knowledge level.
You are unable to understand simple facts and are unwilling to learn from others who know more than you. You act like a child who thinks they know it all.
No; renal failure leads to "dialysis"; many of them survive and need transplants.
Vaccines PREVENT the renal failure in at-risk patients. You can Google those citations up, as well.
Since you know so much, why don't you tell me how a covid patient is treated in the icu. This could be fun.
I READ.
Go look up some medical publications on the topic and you can be better informed, too.
This has a lot of interesting data to digest regarding covid in Wales. There is a lot of stuff to take in here, but it shows that covid is not a big deal for most people, very few die from covid, and those that do are elderly.
So much bullshit in this thread.
No, as a healthy 37 year old male I will not be getting the covid jab, nor will I be getting a flu shot.
No, as a healthy 37 year old male I will not be getting the covid jab, nor will I be getting a flu shot.
Lol, you must have missed the graph showing very few people got the most recent vaccine. Or when they say "97% of people are currently being treated primarily for other conditions and happen to test positive while in hospital or on admission."
There are lots of things in this report that follow what I have been telling you.
So, what if I’m super healthy, have had the vaccines and Covid…any reason to continue. I had a fever for 8!hours with Covid, 12 with each vaccine. No other symptoms
Super healthy people can still get the flu and get Covid infections.
Vaccines for flu absolutely limit the spread and lower your risk of a case that might kick you out of work for a week - most large companies I've ever worked for encourage everyone getting fall vaccinations, to minimize the risks they have a significant fraction of their workforce getting sick; most healthcare-associated jobs require it (e.g. if you have RepTrax, you typically don't get into any facility w/o proof of vaccination).
The same will likely be true for Covid moving forward.
And vaccines for either limit the spread of infections by:
- Shortening the time period you are sick, which likewise shortens the window of opportunity you have to infect other people
- Lowering your viral load, which lowers the risks for spreading infections because you're shedding less virus on others
- Preventing you from getting sick, altogether, which means you cannot spread the virus to someone else (who may not be able to get a vaccine)
Do I need to run those numbers for you (for the eleventieth time)?
And, in case you weren't aware, mortality risks for Covid are many times higher than flu (even in 2023)
0-17 yrs: ~1.6x higher
18-29 yrs: 4.9x higher
30-39 yrs: 5.4x higher
40-49 yrs: 7.5x higher
50-64 yrs: 7.9x higher
65-74 yrs: 11.2x higher
75-84 yrs: 13.6x higher
85+ yrs: 17.1x higher
ONLY in kids is Covid not significantly a higher mortality risk than Covid ('just' about 2x), today.
Every other age group, you're 5x or more likely to die from it than from flu. And a typical flu season is 20k to 50k deaths per year, so if we get as many Covid infections as flu infections, we'll easily still have 100k+ Covid deaths per year. Which are not "just going to be old people", it will be lots of young adults as well.
If you still like your grandparents or older parents, getting a flu shot and Covid shot might help protect them, if you give a shit about them.
COVID-19 Provisional Counts - Weekly Updates by Select Demographic and Geographic Characteristics
Tabulated data on provisional COVID-19 deaths by age, sex, race and Hispanic origin, and comorbidities. Also includes an index of state-level and county-level mortality data available for download.
www.cdc.gov
Super healthy people can still get the flu and get Covid infections.
Vaccines for flu absolutely limit the spread and lower your risk of a case that might kick you out of work for a week - most large companies I've ever worked for encourage everyone getting fall vaccinations, to minimize the risks they have a significant fraction of their workforce getting sick; most healthcare-associated jobs require it (e.g. if you have RepTrax, you typically don't get into any facility w/o proof of vaccination).
The same will likely be true for Covid moving forward.
And vaccines for either limit the spread of infections by:
All of those lower the R0 for an infectious virus (flu or Covid). And even a small alteration to the R0 can have dramatic effects on how many people end up infected.
- Shortening the time period you are sick, which likewise shortens the window of opportunity you have to infect other people
- Lowering your viral load, which lowers the risks for spreading infections because you're shedding less virus on others
- Preventing you from getting sick, altogether, which means you cannot spread the virus to someone else (who may not be able to get a vaccine)
Do I need to run those numbers for you (for the eleventieth time)?
And, in case you weren't aware, mortality risks for Covid are many times higher than flu (even in 2023)
0-17 yrs: ~1.6x higher18-29 yrs: 4.9x higher30-39 yrs: 5.4x higher40-49 yrs: 7.5x higher50-64 yrs: 7.9x higher65-74 yrs: 11.2x higher75-84 yrs: 13.6x higher85+ yrs: 17.1x higher
ONLY in kids is Covid not significantly a higher mortality risk than Covid ('just' about 2x), today.
Every other age group, you're 5x or more likely to die from it than from flu. And a typical flu season is 20k to 50k deaths per year, so if we get as many Covid infections as flu infections, we'll easily still have 100k+ Covid deaths per year. Which are not "just going to be old people", it will be lots of young adults as well.
If you still like your grandparents or older parents, getting a flu shot and Covid shot might help protect them, if you give a shit about them.
COVID-19 Provisional Counts - Weekly Updates by Select Demographic and Geographic Characteristics
Tabulated data on provisional COVID-19 deaths by age, sex, race and Hispanic origin, and comorbidities. Also includes an index of state-level and county-level mortality data available for download.
I don't yet know what I will do with boosters going forward. Lacking education in a field that would allow me to fully understand all of the data, I chose to rely upon the advice of experts, and Dr. Paul Offit is the one that for whatever reason I have chosen to trust the most. He seems pro vaccine, but data driven on who should be vaccinated, how often, and with what. I might be interpreting this quote out of context, but it is interesting that Dr. Offit doesn't seem to think that Covid vaccinations should follow a seasonal flu shot model.
Dr. Paul Offit, a vaccine scientist and professor of pediatrics in the Division of Infectious Diseases at the Children’s Hospital of Philadelphia and a member of the advisory committee, emphasized before the meeting that it’s important to discuss who needs an updated vaccine this fall.
“What’s the goal of the vaccine?” he asked. “If the goal of the vaccine is the stated goal, which is protection against severe disease, do you really need a yearly vaccine for otherwise healthy people less than 75? I mean, is this the flu model? Because I would argue it shouldn’t be.”
FDA advisers recommend that Covid-19 boosters for fall should drop original strain
I can't believe you're still on here spreading stupidity. The majority of your replies on this thread are total bullshit as usual. Nice "Personal review" paper from Dunning Krueger Joe who always touts RCTs yet uses this piece of shit opinion paper as "science" promoted by the pharma captured dipshit Eric Topol. Please inject yourself with a clot shot every month. They are so safe and effective there's no reason not too.
Maybe send Dr. Offit a note, and ask him that if vaccines lower the R0 for the virus (which they do), how many cases and older people (e.g. parents/grandparents deaths) we might avoid.
Certainly, that should be weighed against risks the vaccines pose; but minor myocarditis risks are much more manageable with a vaccine (when you KNOW when to look for symptoms) than they are for a virus (when lots of people do NOT KNOW). And the severity associated with the virus is higher than it is for the vaccines.
1. I see you are making progress. You will finally admit that kids have minimal risk of death from covid. I'll take this as a win since earlier you wouldn't even admit this.Super healthy people can still get the flu and get Covid infections.
Vaccines for flu absolutely limit the spread and lower your risk of a case that might kick you out of work for a week - most large companies I've ever worked for encourage everyone getting fall vaccinations, to minimize the risks they have a significant fraction of their workforce getting sick; most healthcare-associated jobs require it (e.g. if you have RepTrax, you typically don't get into any facility w/o proof of vaccination).
The same will likely be true for Covid moving forward.
And vaccines for either limit the spread of infections by:
All of those lower the R0 for an infectious virus (flu or Covid). And even a small alteration to the R0 can have dramatic effects on how many people end up infected.
- Shortening the time period you are sick, which likewise shortens the window of opportunity you have to infect other people
- Lowering your viral load, which lowers the risks for spreading infections because you're shedding less virus on others
- Preventing you from getting sick, altogether, which means you cannot spread the virus to someone else (who may not be able to get a vaccine)
Do I need to run those numbers for you (for the eleventieth time)?
And, in case you weren't aware, mortality risks for Covid are many times higher than flu (even in 2023)
0-17 yrs: ~1.6x higher18-29 yrs: 4.9x higher30-39 yrs: 5.4x higher40-49 yrs: 7.5x higher50-64 yrs: 7.9x higher65-74 yrs: 11.2x higher75-84 yrs: 13.6x higher85+ yrs: 17.1x higher
ONLY in kids is Covid not significantly a higher mortality risk than Covid ('just' about 2x), today.
Every other age group, you're 5x or more likely to die from it than from flu. And a typical flu season is 20k to 50k deaths per year, so if we get as many Covid infections as flu infections, we'll easily still have 100k+ Covid deaths per year. Which are not "just going to be old people", it will be lots of young adults as well.
If you still like your grandparents or older parents, getting a flu shot and Covid shot might help protect them, if you give a shit about them.
COVID-19 Provisional Counts - Weekly Updates by Select Demographic and Geographic Characteristics
Tabulated data on provisional COVID-19 deaths by age, sex, race and Hispanic origin, and comorbidities. Also includes an index of state-level and county-level mortality data available for download.
2. When you say you are 5x more likely to die from covid than the flu. This is very misleading.
- 40 year old has a 0.2% risk of death. Vaccine brings this down to 0.026% risk of death
- 50 year old has a 0.4% risk of death. Vaccine brings this down to 0.05% risk of death
- 74 year old has a 6.4% risk of death. Vaccine brings this down to 0.64% risk of death
Once again. I believe the vaccine may be appropriate for older people or people who have co-morbidities, but for young healthy people it is not necessary. Any treatment that only reduces the risk of death by <1% is not worth taking.
The numbers you quoted also do not factor in the risk of adverse reactions to the vaccine. So that would also negate some of the decreased risk.
You also mention that large companies recommend their employees getting the vaccine to reduce missed days at work. This is what is says on the cdc website for flu vaccines (I have also cited this to you as a reason not to get an influenza vaccine for young healthy people). I am not getting a covid or flu vaccine just so I possibly don't have to miss a few days of work. This is such a stupid reason to get a vaccine and is the main premise why republicans don't trust the covid vaccine and the money grab that they are.
So we are willing to pay Pfizer billions of dollars to all get vaccinated so each individual avoids calling in sick to work an average of 1.4 days? And we are willing to risk worse side effects from the vaccine than most would even get from the actual virus? At some point we have to use our own brains instead of just buying into all the garbage we are told by big business.
Both previous vaccinations AND previous infections fade with respect to the protection they provide you against new variants.
And the simple fact that Covid is still 5x+ more lethal than flu would be a solid indicator of that...
I've never stated otherwise: their risk is LOW but it is NON-ZERO and it is about 2x higher than death from a flu infection.
And we DO recommend flu shots for children.
Why are you an Immune System denier? I take offense to your quackery propaganda
Huh?
Vaccines boost your immune system. It's why flu vaccines have been around for several decades, and childhood vaccine schedules exist.
