Who's Getting the Fall COVID Vaccine?

[Hawk_82]

No, it is not

That is the current ratio in 2023.

Thats exactly what Im saying. 5x sounds scary, but 0.2% risk of death is not scary to most people (I realize you get scared by this, but I am sure you are one of the few).

Most people accept a 0.2% risk of dying with daily activities such as crossing the street, taking a bath/shower, driving a car, speeding, drinking, taking vaccines, smoking, using drugs (prescription or otc), etc.

Remember, the 0.2% risk of death is only for those diagnosed with covid. So when you add in the risk of actually getting covid, and having a severe enough case that requires you to be tested/diagnoses, that risk drops even more.

So the question is, what level of risk is acceptable to you? 0.2% risk of death from covid is acceptable for me so I will not take a covid vaccine. I don't care if I have to stay home sick from work if I get influenza, so I also will not be taking the influenza vaccine.

Everyone has a different acceptable level of risk, so in reality, we are both right. Your level of acceptable risk is way lower than my level of acceptable risk.

My goal is for people to understand the actual level of risk of death from covid and the absolute reduction in risk by taking the vaccine. I think most people who take the vaccine do not realize how low their risk of dying actually are. If a person knows their risk and wants to take the vaccine, this is totally appropriate and is the purpose of informed consent.

I do not believe the general public has been informed on the actual risk of the vaccines or the absolute risk reduction by taking them.

 

[Joes Place]

Thats exactly what Im saying. 5x sounds scary

It is a risk-ratio.

And quit pretending "natural immunity" is some Magic 8-ball.

There are lots and lots of people who had Covid, then caught it again and died from it. Along with many others who are now suffering long-term sequelae from it, which vaccines can protect against.

 

[Hawk_82]

Huh?

Vaccines boost your immune system. It's why flu vaccines have been around for several decades, and childhood vaccine schedules exist.

This was a joke in reference to you implying multiple times that the only way to protect yourself from covid is to get a vaccine. This is blatantly false. A healthy immune system can fight covid whether you got the vaccine or not. A poor immune system, even with a vaccine with a vaccine will have a harder time with covid.

Vaccines do not "boost" your immune system. They provide immunity against specific diseases. (im not arguing, just fixing a technicality that Im sure you already know).

A person can improve their immune system by eating healthy, eating fruits and vegetables, exercising, maintaining a healthy weight, etc. This arguably fights covid better than the vaccines do since the majority of people who died from covid had multiple co-morbidities.

 

[Joes Place]

This was a joke in reference to you implying multiple times that the only way to protect yourself from covid is to get a vaccine.

Uh...it IS the only way to protect yourself from Covid. Unless you want to isolate and mask the rest of your life.

Your own immune system wanes in its ability to fight off Covid, despite prior exposure.

People will continue to get Covid; the ones who get regular boosters are likely to have far less severe symptoms, for a shorter timeframe, and will shed less virus. Thus, lowering the risks of spreading the virus to other people. Including people who cannot be protected via vaccination.

 

[Joes Place]

A person can improve their immune system by eating healthy, eating fruits and vegetables,

Those will do nothing against a new virus.

Go load up on "fruits and vegetables" and expose yourself to Ebola, or one of the other hemorrhagic viruses. See how that pans out for you.

 

[Hawk_82]

It is a risk-ratio.

And quit pretending "natural immunity" is some Magic 8-ball.

There are lots and lots of people who had Covid, then caught it again and died from it. Along with many others who are now suffering long-term sequelae from it, which vaccines can protect against.

Studies show natural immunity is at least as good as the vaccination and may last longer.
There are also lots and lots of people who got the vaccine and still died. This doesn't change anything.

 

[Hawk_82]

Uh...it IS the only way to protect yourself from Covid. Unless you want to isolate and mask the rest of your life.

Your own immune system wanes in its ability to fight off Covid, despite prior exposure.

People will continue to get Covid; the ones who get regular boosters are likely to have far less severe symptoms, for a shorter timeframe, and will shed less virus. Thus, lowering the risks of spreading the virus to other people. Including people who cannot be protected via vaccination.

So in your mind there are only 3 options? 1. take the vaccine and live, 2. not take the vaccine and have to wear a mask forever, or 3. not take the vaccine and die.

Now I have a better perspective of where you are coming from. You are dead wrong, but now I understand.

Only a small select group of people in 2020 received a covid vaccine and yet not everyone died. The reason is that their immune system was able to fight the illness. The biggest thing with covid is to avoid organ failure or permanent damage while the body has a chance to fight the infection.

The large number of deaths initially were due to the medical community not knowing the best way to treat the illness. Today we know how to treat covid. Even if we had a huge wave of covid, we still would not see the same number of deaths as what we had in 2020-2022. People would still die, but it would not be in massive numbers.

I think this is the difference between you just reading journals and thinking you have all the information vs someone who has actually done it. You just don't have the same level of understanding. That is ok.

 

[Joes Place]

Studies show natural immunity is at least as good as the vaccination

And with the vaccination, you can reduce your risk of both severe illness AND Long Covid/sequelae from the virus.

Ergo: "natural immunity" isn't as good as a vaccine, because getting exposed with the vaccine ups your odds of a better outcome.

 

[Joes Place]

So in your mind there are only 3 options? 1. take the vaccine and live, 2. not take the vaccine and have to wear a mask forever, or 3. not take the vaccine and die.

Not anything I've stated.

That's your Straw-Man here.

 

[your_master5]

Yep.

I am.

Typical pathetic, Joe. Misinformation spreading libtard

 

[your_master5]

Both previous vaccinations AND previous infections fade with respect to the protection they provide you against new variants.

And the simple fact that Covid is still 5x+ more lethal than flu would be a solid indicator of that...

This doesn't provide any valid reasoning to get a booster you idiot. Take your 5x crap you keep spewing and shove it. Very few people need to have a flu/covid shot....ever

 

[mr12182]

My wife was 65 years old, ate very healthy, never smoked, wasn’t overweight, had no comorbidities and died about 40 days after getting Covid. Getting the vaccine would not have prevented her from getting it but would have saved her life in my opinion. She was an intelligent person who was mislead by people who didn’t follow/ believe in mainstream medicine. In her last days, she regretted her decision and apologized to me for not following my advice. I know of 6 people who got the vaccine after hearing her story. I miss her dearly but know she’s in a better place and I will see her again. That’s my consolation.

 

[Pinehawk]

Uh...it IS the only way to protect yourself from Covid. Unless you want to isolate and mask the rest of your life.

Your own immune system wanes in its ability to fight off Covid, despite prior exposure.

Wrong.

Results: nearly 900 studies were collected, and 246 pertinent articles were included. It was highlighted that the vast majority of the individuals after suffering from COVID-19 develop a natural immunity both of cell-mediated and humoral type, which is effective over time and provides protection against both reinfection and serious illness. Vaccine-induced immunity was shown to decay faster than natural immunity. In general, the severity of the symptoms of reinfection is significantly lower than in the primary infection, with a lower degree of hospitalizations (0.06%) and an extremely low mortality.

Conclusions: this extensive narrative review regarding a vast number of articles highlighted the valuable protection induced by the natural immunity after COVID-19, which seems comparable or superior to the one induced by anti-SARS-CoV-2 vaccination. Consequently, vaccination of the unvaccinated COVID-19-recovered subjects may not be indicated. Further research is needed in order to: (a) measure the durability of immunity over time; (b) evaluate both the impacts of Omicron BA.5 on vaccinated and healed subjects and the role of hybrid immunity.

https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/363...nity was shown,and an extremely low mortality.

 

[globalhawk]

Wrong.

Results: nearly 900 studies were collected, and 246 pertinent articles were included. It was highlighted that the vast majority of the individuals after suffering from COVID-19 develop a natural immunity both of cell-mediated and humoral type, which is effective over time and provides protection against both reinfection and serious illness. Vaccine-induced immunity was shown to decay faster than natural immunity. In general, the severity of the symptoms of reinfection is significantly lower than in the primary infection, with a lower degree of hospitalizations (0.06%) and an extremely low mortality.

Conclusions: this extensive narrative review regarding a vast number of articles highlighted the valuable protection induced by the natural immunity after COVID-19, which seems comparable or superior to the one induced by anti-SARS-CoV-2 vaccination. Consequently, vaccination of the unvaccinated COVID-19-recovered subjects may not be indicated. Further research is needed in order to: (a) measure the durability of immunity over time; (b) evaluate both the impacts of Omicron BA.5 on vaccinated and healed subjects and the role of hybrid immunity.

https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/36362500/#:~:text=Vaccine-induced immunity was shown,and an extremely low mortality.

This only states that natural immunity for Covid infection decays at a slower rate than Vaccine-induced immunity. They all still decay. This is why people mock you. You have no idea what you are talking about. You are an internet researcher that believes that they know more than the medical community.

 

[gamedayron01]

So much bullshit in this thread.


No, as a healthy 37 year old male I will not be getting the covid jab, nor will I be getting a flu shot.

You don’t look healthy at all Smiling Penis. You actually look late 40’s.

 

[Whiskeydeltadeltatango]

You don’t look healthy at all Smiling Penis. You actually look late 40’s.

The whole "smiling penis" thing got a whole new perspective when you admitted to being into dudes. I'm going to get out in front of this and say, I have no interest in men Ron. You are not my type, best of luck in all your future endeavors.

 

[gamedayron01]

The whole "smiling penis" thing got a whole new perspective when you admitted to being into dudes. I'm going to get out in front of this and say, I have no interest in men Ron. You are not my type, best of luck in all your future endeavors.

You are unclean, dumb, and look like Sling Blade. Trust me, you aren’t anything to write home about. Your own wife won’t even **** you.

 

[Joes Place]

This doesn't provide any valid reasoning to get a booster you idiot.

Of course it does.

Immunity wanes; irrespective of whether you had it from a vaccine 1 year ago, or an infection 1 year ago.

You will have greater protection against the next infection with a booster.

This isn't rocket science, but it does appear to be well outside your ability to understand it.

 

[Joes Place]

Wrong.

Right.
Your immunity wanes, whether you get it from vaccine doses or from Covid.

Hundreds of people died from Covid, thinking a prior infection would "protect" them. They were wrong, and so are you.

 

[Joes Place]

Wrong.

Results: nearly 900 studies were collected, and 246 pertinent articles were included. It was highlighted that the vast majority of the individuals after suffering from COVID-19 develop a natural immunity both of cell-mediated and humoral type, which is effective over time and provides protection against both reinfection and serious illness. Vaccine-induced immunity was shown to decay faster than natural immunity. In general, the severity of the symptoms of reinfection is significantly lower than in the primary infection, with a lower degree of hospitalizations (0.06%) and an extremely low mortality.

Conclusions: this extensive narrative review regarding a vast number of articles highlighted the valuable protection induced by the natural immunity after COVID-19, which seems comparable or superior to the one induced by anti-SARS-CoV-2 vaccination. Consequently, vaccination of the unvaccinated COVID-19-recovered subjects may not be indicated. Further research is needed in order to: (a) measure the durability of immunity over time; (b) evaluate both the impacts of Omicron BA.5 on vaccinated and healed subjects and the role of hybrid immunity.

https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/36362500/#:~:text=Vaccine-induced immunity was shown,and an extremely low mortality.

Further research is needed in order to: (a) measure the durability of immunity over time;

This is exactly the point, idiot.
And lots of people DIED from re-infections, because the previous infection DID NOT protect them. Vaccine boosters WOULD HAVE.

 

[Joes Place]

Wrong.

Results: nearly 900 studies were collected, and 246 pertinent articles were included. It was highlighted that the vast majority of the individuals after suffering from COVID-19 develop a natural immunity both of cell-mediated and humoral type, which is effective over time and provides protection against both reinfection and serious illness. Vaccine-induced immunity was shown to decay faster than natural immunity. In general, the severity of the symptoms of reinfection is significantly lower than in the primary infection, with a lower degree of hospitalizations (0.06%) and an extremely low mortality.

Conclusions: this extensive narrative review regarding a vast number of articles highlighted the valuable protection induced by the natural immunity after COVID-19, which seems comparable or superior to the one induced by anti-SARS-CoV-2 vaccination. Consequently, vaccination of the unvaccinated COVID-19-recovered subjects may not be indicated. Further research is needed in order to: (a) measure the durability of immunity over time; (b) evaluate both the impacts of Omicron BA.5 on vaccinated and healed subjects and the role of hybrid immunity.

https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/36362500/#:~:text=Vaccine-induced immunity was shown,and an extremely low mortality.

"Natural immunity seems to be less robust against new variants"

Your source.

 

[Joes Place]

Wrong.

Results: nearly 900 studies were collected, and 246 pertinent articles were included. It was highlighted that the vast majority of the individuals after suffering from COVID-19 develop a natural immunity both of cell-mediated and humoral type, which is effective over time and provides protection against both reinfection and serious illness. Vaccine-induced immunity was shown to decay faster than natural immunity. In general, the severity of the symptoms of reinfection is significantly lower than in the primary infection, with a lower degree of hospitalizations (0.06%) and an extremely low mortality.

Conclusions: this extensive narrative review regarding a vast number of articles highlighted the valuable protection induced by the natural immunity after COVID-19, which seems comparable or superior to the one induced by anti-SARS-CoV-2 vaccination. Consequently, vaccination of the unvaccinated COVID-19-recovered subjects may not be indicated. Further research is needed in order to: (a) measure the durability of immunity over time; (b) evaluate both the impacts of Omicron BA.5 on vaccinated and healed subjects and the role of hybrid immunity.

https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/36362500/#:~:text=Vaccine-induced immunity was shown,and an extremely low mortality.

Several epidemiological studies report about the occurrence of a protection from reinfection and from clinically severe disease in individuals with prior SARS-CoV-2 infection. In particular, two systematic reviews were conducted on the available literature, according to the PRISMA guidelines, in order to determine the effective protection offered by the natural immunity in the general non-vaccinated population [142] and in individuals subjected to complete vaccination course [143]. Specifically, in the review carried out by the group of Kojima et al. [142], the weighted mean reduction in the risk of reinfection was 90.4% with a standard deviation of 7.7%. Protection against SARS-CoV-2 reinfection has been observed for 10 months and was similar to that offered by vaccination [144].

The systematic review by Shenai et al. evaluated observational and randomized controlled trials; all the included studies found at least a statistical equivalence between the protection offered by the complete vaccination and the natural immunity

 

[Joes Place]

Wrong.

Results: nearly 900 studies were collected, and 246 pertinent articles were included. It was highlighted that the vast majority of the individuals after suffering from COVID-19 develop a natural immunity both of cell-mediated and humoral type, which is effective over time and provides protection against both reinfection and serious illness. Vaccine-induced immunity was shown to decay faster than natural immunity. In general, the severity of the symptoms of reinfection is significantly lower than in the primary infection, with a lower degree of hospitalizations (0.06%) and an extremely low mortality.

Conclusions: this extensive narrative review regarding a vast number of articles highlighted the valuable protection induced by the natural immunity after COVID-19, which seems comparable or superior to the one induced by anti-SARS-CoV-2 vaccination. Consequently, vaccination of the unvaccinated COVID-19-recovered subjects may not be indicated. Further research is needed in order to: (a) measure the durability of immunity over time; (b) evaluate both the impacts of Omicron BA.5 on vaccinated and healed subjects and the role of hybrid immunity.

https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/36362500/#:~:text=Vaccine-induced immunity was shown,and an extremely low mortality.

A number of studies have also clarified that, compared to the previous variants, Omicron has markedly decreased the protective efficacy of both a previous infection and vaccinations [68,192,203,204,205]. However, it was shown that the individuals who have overcome the natural infection are protected from an Omicron infection slightly more than those who have had two doses of the vaccine. The difference, 61.9% versus 55.9%, is not statistically significant,

 

[Pete Malloy]

Possibly, but not likely. I'll grab the flu shot at my fall VA appt, but I rarely get sick. Only had COVID one time (Jun 2022) and it was super easy. I'm pretty sure the efficacy of my original shot and booster had worn off by then.

At my last Dr appointment 3 wks ago my doctor informed me that it was past 6 months since my last Covid shot. I said I would pass until the new variant vaccine comes out in the fall.

I tested positive today after feeling crappy since Saturday morning.

 

[IAFB2021Champs]

At my last Dr appointment 3 wks ago my doctor informed me that it was past 6 months since my last Covid shot. I said I would pass until the new variant vaccine comes out in the fall.

I tested positive today after feeling crappy since Saturday morning.

And are you gonna make it? Or is this variant going to be the end of you?

 

[Joes Place]

I tested positive today after feeling crappy since Saturday morning.

I caught it ~ a month or so ago.
Modest flu-like symptoms, aside from losing taste senses for a couple days. Congestion took over a week to clear up; mild fever for 2-3 days. Last bad case of the flu I had many years ago was 2x-3x worse, IMO.

Clearly, bivalent vaccine kept me from getting a worse case (probably 10 months since I got that bivalent shot).

May skip the fall vaccine update, based on the actual infection/positive test. But w/o that positive test/infection, I'd be planning to get updated Covid vaccines, just like annual flu shots.

Whole point of vaccines is to prime your immune system BEFORE you get exposed. And as Covid keeps changing like the flu, updated vaccines will work just like flu vaccines in preventing you from having a more severe case.

 

[IAFB2021Champs]

I caught it ~ a month or so ago.
Modest flu-like symptoms, aside from losing taste senses for a couple days. Congestion took over a week to clear up; mild fever for 2-3 days. Last bad case of the flu I had many years ago was 2x-3x worse, IMO.

Clearly, bivalent vaccine kept me from getting a worse case (probably 10 months since I got that bivalent shot).

May skip the fall vaccine update, based on the actual infection/positive test. But w/o that positive test/infection, I'd be planning to get updated Covid vaccines, just like annual flu shots.

Whole point of vaccines is to prime your immune system BEFORE you get exposed. And as Covid keeps changing like the flu, updated vaccines will work just like flu vaccines in preventing you from having a more severe case.

I will give you props joe. You have always backed the covid vaccine and continue to do so even though it’s become clear that it’s very overrated and pretty much pointless at this point.

 

[Joes Place]

even though it’s become clear that it’s very overrated

Your opinion is inconsistent with "data".

 

[Rifler]

Your opinion is inconsistent with "data".

Your data is inconsistent with opinion...

 

[your_master5]

Of course it does.

Immunity wanes; irrespective of whether you had it from a vaccine 1 year ago, or an infection 1 year ago.

You will have greater protection against the next infection with a booster.

This isn't rocket science, but it does appear to be well outside your ability to understand it.

The clot shot wanes very quickly and goes into negative efficacy, numbnuts. It's never provided greater protection than natural immunity and never will. The boosters have never been for current strains either. The vast majority of people have had covid and will be just fine without a booster.

So, yeah it doesn't dipwad. What's the booster uptick now bonehead? But still there are losers like you who just can't get it through their thick skulls. Please bonehead, take a booster a month. They are soooo safe and effective!!!! No risk!

 

[Joes Place]

The clot shot wanes

So does immunity from prior infection.
Particularly with respect to "new variants".

Primary difference, here, being that they can reformulate the vaccines to match the circulating variants.

And, FWIW, risks from the virus are far greater than they are from the vaccines.

 

[Joes Place]

The vast majority of people have had covid and will be just fine without a booster.

No; they won't.

Immunity will wane, again, and just like the folks who thought prior infection would protect them, and died anyway, more people will end up severely ill or dead from future variants.

Annual, or bi-annual boosters will likely become the medical recommendation, just like annual flu shots are generally recommended.

 

[Joes Place]

Your data is inconsistent with opinion...

FUNFACT: That means your "opinion" is in error.

 

[Pinehawk]

Joe's Place not getting the vaccine booster this fall...because he got actual covid and considers that enough protection...
...Oh, the irony is so thick it's hard to see in here.

 

[Rifler]

FUNFACT: That means your "opinion" is in error.

or your data is faulty...

 

[Joes Place]

Joe's Place not getting the vaccine booster this fall...because he got actual covid and considers that enough protection...

How is that "irony"?
It's like if you got the flu, before the flu shots came out. And probably don't need a flu shot, because you already caught the circulating variant.

If I had Covid a year ago, I'd get a fall booster. Getting it within a few months of when those boosters are available will probably mean "equal protection". But guess what? I'll actually ask my PCP what he'd recommend, and follow his advice.

 

[Joes Place]

or your data is faulty...

No; the data is the data. Lots of people who'd assumed prior infection would protect them were wrong. And it cost them their lives.

 

[Rifler]

No; the data is the data. Lots of people who'd assumed prior infection would protect them were wrong. And it cost them their lives.

The data is far from conclusive,.. People die every day,.. Life goes on.

 

[Joes Place]

The data is far from conclusive

No, it's conclusive.

People who had documented prior infections got newer variants and did not survive the subsequent infection.

Immunity wanes. Particularly with respiratory viruses like flu and Covid. And Covid is still 5x-10x more dangerous than flu.

Every physician I've ever seen has recommended an annual flu shot, so it won't surprise me in the least to have the same recommendation for an annual or bi-annual Covid shot.

 

[IAFB2021Champs]

How is that "irony"?
It's like if you got the flu, before the flu shots came out. And probably don't need a flu shot, because you already caught the circulating variant.

If I had Covid a year ago, I'd get a fall booster. Getting it within a few months of when those boosters are available will probably mean "equal protection". But guess what? I'll actually ask my PCP what he'd recommend, and follow his advice.

My question would be how did you even manage to get Covid in the first place. Shouldn’t you be hiding in your basement with fear of the deadly disease.