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Gandhi wasn’t inoffensive. He was an agitator. Peaceful protesting doesn’t mean quite and acceptable. You don’t know history.
You don’t understand what is meant by defunding the police state. The founders did.Sorry, I'm not even sure how to respond to your point. If you believe for 1 minute there is a similarity between the founding fathers telling most of the soldiers to go home (the war was over) and defunding the police today, you need to return any diploma you ever received. Defunding the police will only increase crime against those most vulnerable, not help them. Please look at the stats of a black man getting killed by a criminal vs a policeman. It's not even in the same ballpark. Please think before speaking.....
You omit the fear that a military could be used to oppress. That’s the role the police are in today. The people want to free themselves of oppression just like the founding generation. You certainly haven’t learned much from history.My MA is in history, albeit an emphasis on ancient history...but history nonetheless. Your characterization of the FF's view on standing armies is deeply wrong. When a threat was present, they were about funding the hell out of the army...many of them argued against the cost of maintaining a standing army ONLY because militias were so easily called up AND effective (most men were trained in the use of firearms and were ready to serve if called up in the militia). None of that relates to the need for a standing army in the modern era post TWO world wars and a Cold War.
One of us is ill informed, but I can assure you it isn't me.Likely, someone quoted a bare fact of an FF being against the concept of funding a standing army...and you tried to carry that over into some modern analogy. Well, guess what? You were given partial and irrelevant information...perhaps go back and do your own research and stop swallowing whole the pablum from your radicalized professor.
Look at you turning to violence as you seek ground to oppose kneeling. I laugh at you.Gandhi was radically peaceful, adamant in his goals, and polite to his adversaries. He did not support street violence...on the contrary...used the threat of his death to end such activities. You are confusing peaceful civil disobedience...with burning down a Wendy's and/or killing a 77 year old black police chief...for the mayhem and agitation that is occurring today.
Gandhi would have looked on the protesting/rioting that is occurring here today and been deeply disgusted. Likewise for MLK.
You omit the fear that a military could be used to oppress. That’s the role the police are in today. The people want to free themselves of oppression just like the founding generation. You certainly haven’t learned much from history.
Ok Mesa, I can't take this anymore. Your exact words, "Change that lasts needs to come from consensus." Let me ask you something. During the Civil rights movement of the 60's, do you really think the deep South, Alabama, Louisiana, Missiissippi, probably even the majority of Florida, Texas had a consensus that what was being done was right? Blacks attempting to integrate schools, eat in the same restaurants, vote, etc. That is a totally BS statement. It would never have been accomplished without massive protests. And look at the push back, the blacks being hosed down, beaten, lynched even in the 60's just asking for equality. They had to fight, scratch, claw for everything they got, and NOTHING was handed to them. Had to have police escorts just to be able to go to a "white school." And half of you on this board get so butthurt about modern day athletes kneeling? Again, most of you like the current status quo because it is good for YOU. You claimed you were against Racism and police brutality but really don't seem to want any change. Time doesn't standstill.
So, is ‘change’ the only thing that progressives are open minded about?Sarcasm?
You’re another who doesn’t understand what defunding the police state means. You have a habit of constructing false narratives to argue against.First of all, that's not what "the people" want as the vast majority oppose full defunding of the police. Second, a sure sign of a "fanatic" is someone who claims to speak "for the people". So to be clear, you don't.
As for the role of the police, others have cited the data from police interactions in this thread...you should read them. There are rare exceptions in which a police officer is a thug/racist and acts unprofessionally...and the vast majority of police officers despise them. But no profession is free of bad people. The freedom to which you refer comes about BECAUSE the police are part of minimizing crime and creating an environment in which we are all free to express ourselves openly. Remove them, and freedom will dissipate because oppression and violence will have no restraint when people are met with speech they dislike.
I've learned a lot from history, but I realize that I have much more to learn. You, on the other hand, are the perfect example of "It ain't what you know that's harmful, its what you think you know that just ain't so." The only thing worse than not knowing our history, is what you do...knowing a bogus version of it and failing even to understand that bit.
The fear mongering from the "defunding" of the police is just insane. The police have been given free reign in this country forever. You can cite statistics all you want, but without body cams and cameras, we were always forced to take their word for it. The guy resisted, I thought he was going for his gun, etc. And no, it's not always black, it's mostly a poor thing. For years the cops have also internally investigated themselves. Oh, and guess what? 9 out of 10 times they found when they shot somebody it was a "good shoot." That's what we are talking about. Sure there are good cops. Sure there are a fair amount of really bad people out there. There are also a lot of people in the middle of that. All police should have bodycams, and cameras on their cars. They should not be internally investigating themselves every time they shoot somebody. Frigging ridiculous.
You’re another who doesn’t understand what defunding the police state means. You have a habit of constructing false narratives to argue against.
No, that’s simply giving you the benefit of the doubt. I believe most people understand the situation and construct false narratives to gain an advantage, like you have done in this thread.Do you often "feel" that those who disagree with you just don't "understand" your point?
Your words are the vast majority of cops are good people trying to do the right thing. Again, a lot of people, and minorities and poor people especially don't agree. And yes, I stick to my comment that they have been given "free reign." Who has been policing them? Before Body cams and such, there was zero accountability of police. Zero. An eyewitness in a poor neighborhood against the word of a cop? GTF out of here. Again, not always blaming the cops, as in most cases that is how they are told to police, by both Republican and Democrat regimes. Nobody wants to pretend they are not "tough on crime" if they are running for office. This current system, and I think you agree, needs to be addressed and changed. And it's already happening. That doesn't mean we won't still have police and it's going to spiral out of control. That's fear mongering.
No, that’s simply giving you the benefit of the doubt. I believe most people understand the situation and construct false narratives to gain an advantage, like you have done in this thread.
Dumbass. In the greater Orlando area, the vast majority of stop light cameras are in poor neighborhoods. The automated fines can be over $300.So speeding and parking tickets are the downfall of the poor community? The police are not going to dedicate a lot of time targeting poor communities for minor traffic violations and minor traffic violations are a poor excuse anyway. Laws are laws and are there to be equally followed or not followed by all.
I know what'll make em agree with us. Let's piss em off!!Sometimes meaningful change only occurs when enough people are uncomfortable.
Again, no offense Mesa but you keep presenting this “data” and we are supposed to believe it. This data comes from who? Oh, the police who report on it. I’m convinced and I believe it’s been going on forever that they can manipulate reports any way they want. Still believe the police have way way to much power. Just my opinion.
if you want to protest, fine, do it on your own time. That's how I feel about kneeling.
Dumbass. In the greater Orlando area, the vast majority of stop light cameras are in poor neighborhoods. The automated fines can be over $300.
The registered owner is automatically fined. If they don’t or can’t pay the fine, they lose their license, go to jail.
You’re right about one thing. He’s a dumb a##.
No, that’s simply giving you the benefit of the doubt. I believe most people understand the situation and construct false narratives to gain an advantage, like you have done in this thread.
What a waste of text.naturalmwa, you have proven your ignorance time and time again. It doesn't appear that anything short of complete capitulation to your point of view is acceptable to you. We all want the country to be better. It takes time and a consensus as to what our biggest problems are. If you think the U.S. is so bad, Cuba, Venezuela, N Korea all seem like a place you would fit right in. But be careful, don't get on the goverment's bad side......
Will covid even be on the radar in August? Look at the national numbers. They've been rapidly declining.
Lol. Check here how covid is "declining" in Texas. Florida and Arizona are even worse.
https://apps.texastribune.org/features/2020/texas-coronavirus-cases-map/
Lol. Check here how covid is "declining" in Texas. Florida and Arizona are even worse.
https://apps.texastribune.org/features/2020/texas-coronavirus-cases-map/
you are kidding right ?Will covid even be on the radar in August? Look at the national numbers. They've been rapidly declining.
Ok Mesa, I can't take this anymore. Your exact words, "Change that lasts needs to come from consensus." Let me ask you something. During the Civil rights movement of the 60's, do you really think the deep South, Alabama, Louisiana, Missiissippi, probably even the majority of Florida, Texas had a consensus that what was being done was right? Blacks attempting to integrate schools, eat in the same restaurants, vote, etc. That is a totally BS statement. It would never have been accomplished without massive protests. And look at the push back, the blacks being hosed down, beaten, lynched even in the 60's just asking for equality. They had to fight, scratch, claw for everything they got, and NOTHING was handed to them. Had to have police escorts just to be able to go to a "white school." And half of you on this board get so butthurt about modern day athletes kneeling? Again, most of you like the current status quo because it is good for YOU. You claimed you were against Racism and police brutality but really don't seem to want any change. Time doesn't standstill.