I think iowa needs to worry more about getting out from being 3rd place than Penn State. Penn State has 6 wrestlers better than Iowa's best wrestler currently. OK state has 9 good wrestlers with one hole. Iowa has 4 guys who are guaranteed to all American. After that too many hopes and question marks.
Iowa 3rd place
- Thread starter Herkyjerkyhawks
- Start date
6 wrestlers better than Lee or Marinelli? Come on man.
Lee hasn’t shown that he’ll be in shape to compete with the best by post season, imo.
Brah, any fantasy of beating PSU died when Kem went down 3-4 months ago. The rest of us figured it out then but welcome to the party even though you're incredibly late.
It use to be Okie State that would bomb at the end of the year. Iowa has replaced them. Under preforming for about 8 years now and on track to do it again. Really looked sorry today.
Last year I am pretty sure Iowa WAY over performed at nationals.
Pretty sure they overperformed at ncaas last yeae
No they didn't. The expectation bar got lowered late and they exceeded the lower bar but did not live up to season expectations or tied it.
Another troll masquerading as a Hawk fan?
So what? Sh*t happens. They'll do the best they can. I realize that it's hard to be disappointed, but life sometimes disappoints.
I’m not real sure how the bar got lowered late. What were the season expectations last year? After the first couple of meets, I thought it was the worst Iowa team in 30-40 years and didn’t expect a top 5 finish.
Shhh! no rational thinking after a tough loss.
Lol no. That was a team expected to have to fight to place top 10 at nationals heading into the year. Take a look at this team to start the year
125 an emaciated Justin Stickley who did a great job taking one for the team. He was a good sized 141 this year.
133 Paul Glynn who was like the 4th or 5th string 141 the year before.
141 Vince Turk coming off a serious injury and no notable collegiate results
149 Sorensen
157 Kemerer
165 Marinelli who significantly over performed expectations last year. People don't give him enough credit for how much he improved last year. He was a R12 guy at best as a true freshman entering the deepest weight class in the country. If you looked at preseason predictions, I believe most non-iowa fan pundits had him finishing R12.
174 An undersized Joey Gunther/a comically undersized Kaleb Young
184 Mitch Bowman coming off a stellar 4-3 sophomore season without a win over anybody with a pulse (his improvement has also been understated)
197 Cash Wilcke who was undersized and needed a late injury just wrestle at nationals the year before.
285 Stoll had yet to complete a season.
Any pundit that predicted this team to compete for a trophy would have immediately lost all credibility, which is why none of them did. The fact that Brands was able to take this team to a third place finish at nationals was perhaps the best performance of his career.
125 an emaciated Justin Stickley who did a great job taking one for the team. He was a good sized 141 this year.
Got replaced by Lee - no comparison in expectations
133 Paul Glynn who was like the 4th or 5th string 141 the year before.
No expectations.
141 Vince Turk coming off a serious injury and no notable collegiate results
Was considered AA material. Past injury was not an issue. He was healthy.
149 Sorensen
Expected to finish 2nd. Finished 5th
157 Kemerer
Expected 2nd. Finished 4th.
165 Marinelli who significantly over performed expectations last year. People don't give him enough credit for how much he improved last year. He was a R12 guy at best as a true freshman entering the deepest weight class in the country. If you looked at preseason predictions, I believe most non-iowa fan pundits had him finishing R12.
He immediately became top ranked. Finished 6th.
174 An undersized Joey Gunther/a comically undersized Kaleb Young
Nothing to compare.
184 Mitch Bowman coming off a stellar 4-3 sophomore season without a win over anybody with a pulse (his improvement has also been understated)
Nothing to compare.
197 Cash Wilcke who was undersized and needed a late injury just wrestle at nationals the year before.
Ranked #2 early on and Midlands champ. DNP
285 Stoll had yet to complete a season.
Warrior like and placed where was expected. Nothing to compare.
Most bonus points came from Lee.
NOTE - going off of memory on actual placement
Got replaced by Lee - no comparison in expectations
133 Paul Glynn who was like the 4th or 5th string 141 the year before.
No expectations.
141 Vince Turk coming off a serious injury and no notable collegiate results
Was considered AA material. Past injury was not an issue. He was healthy.
149 Sorensen
Expected to finish 2nd. Finished 5th
157 Kemerer
Expected 2nd. Finished 4th.
165 Marinelli who significantly over performed expectations last year. People don't give him enough credit for how much he improved last year. He was a R12 guy at best as a true freshman entering the deepest weight class in the country. If you looked at preseason predictions, I believe most non-iowa fan pundits had him finishing R12.
He immediately became top ranked. Finished 6th.
174 An undersized Joey Gunther/a comically undersized Kaleb Young
Nothing to compare.
184 Mitch Bowman coming off a stellar 4-3 sophomore season without a win over anybody with a pulse (his improvement has also been understated)
Nothing to compare.
197 Cash Wilcke who was undersized and needed a late injury just wrestle at nationals the year before.
Ranked #2 early on and Midlands champ. DNP
285 Stoll had yet to complete a season.
Warrior like and placed where was expected. Nothing to compare.
Most bonus points came from Lee.
NOTE - going off of memory on actual placement
125 Lee was not expected to wrestle, so yes this was over performing. He certainly wasn't expected to run through that field the way he did.
133 Correct
141 Nobody who doesn't bleed black and gold though Vince Turk was an AA threat going into last year.
149 I guess
157 Seeding screwed up his placement. He was the second best guy at 157, but I'll give it to you.
165 "Became top ranked immediately" Lol yeah because he beat guys he wasn't supposed to beat. They call that...over performing.
174 Correct
184 Correct
197 Uh no. He was never ranked higher than 5th or 6th and it was based on one tournament. He came into the year ranked in the mid teens based on a miracle R12 run and finished right there. If the wrestler did not get hurt last year, Wilcke would have started the year unranked, before climbing to a top 10 ranking. They call that...over performing.
285 You can't just say Stoll "placed where expected." He literally had not finished the last two seasons. Nobody was counting on Sam Stoll for anything last year. He also balled out at NCAAs with a bunch of pins and beat Nevills who had owned him. They call that....over performing.
The hilarious thing about your take is that you have it completely flipped when you say that expectations were lowered late. Expectations were raised late after Spencer entered the lineup and guys like Wilcke, Marinelli, Bowman, and Stoll significantly over performed preseason expectations. They still over performed those raised expectations.
Bull faded at the end of the season and NCAA's.
Cash did get ranked #2 and then strung together many losses.
Stoll was ranked #5 and finished there - no gain.
I see 141, 149, 157, 165, and 197 as preforming less than expected.
Cash did get ranked #2 and then strung together many losses.
Stoll was ranked #5 and finished there - no gain.
I see 141, 149, 157, 165, and 197 as preforming less than expected.
Talk about moving the bar...Iowa performs better than most expected at NCAAs last year but it's only because their expectations are now so low that they only over-performed those lower expectations but under-performed the previous higher expectations.
Geez
Cody Parkey would be a hero in Chicago with your goalposts.
If anyone complains about a bad call it is like the bat signal with you coming to the refs rescue. But it is fine for you to criticize anything you want about the coaches and wrestlers.
I know everyone loves Lee but Alex is by far the teams best wrestler at this point.
We were predicted to place anywhere from 8-10 last year...this was without Spencer. Last year's team took dual losses to Michigan, PSU, and tOSU. Even with Spencer, many didn't have us in the top 5. Last year, we scored the 2nd most bonus points since 2011...one PSU team topped that. This was after a very bad B1G tourney where I am guessing guys like came on here to start "Fire Brands" and "Iowa teams choke".
BTW...except for last year, Okie State does not bomb at the end of the year. Iowa has not finished outside the top five since after Brands first year. Not national titles, but not a bomb either. With Sam not able to score points and Kemerer out, I expect this get tested because both were a big reason we finished the way we did last year.
1. Marinelli faded late, but still SIGNIFICANTLY over performed preseason expectations. Again, if he under performed expectations at NCAAs it was because he had over performed all year long and expectations were raised. In other words, the complete opposite of your claim.
2. No he was not. Doubling down does not make it true. Highest he was ever ranked was 5th after midlands, and part of that was freshman Darmstadt still climbing the rankings because he hadn't hit top guys yet (eventual 2 seed) and Rasheed still ranked lower because he hadn't been the starter at that point. Cash was ranked 11th to start the year, entirely based on his miracle NCAA run where he didn't even actually qualify. He was unranked for all of his freshman year and became a legit top 10 guy last year.
3. Sam Stoll started ranked 7th, and more importantly was coming off two torn ACLs as a heavyweight. He was one of the biggest question marks in the country coming into last year. Him becoming a big time point scorer was a huge surprise.
Another thing to remember is that the team scored the most bonus of any team last year at NCAAs. If you predicted that preseason, you would have been institutionalized.
I'll repeat it one more time because you don't seem to understand. To the extent that Iowa under performed at nationals, it was because expectations were raised late in the season after pretty much their whole team significantly over performed preseason expectations. Iowa was ranked 9th to start the year. They finished 3rd. They call that over performing.
Your claim that expectations were lowered late is literally the opposite of what happened. Either start paying attention or consider posting less.
"The only reason we overachieved was that we scored more points than expected."
Many people raised their early season expectations once it was officially determined that Spencer was not going to Redshirt......this did not occur until mid-late December.
Where would have Iowa finished at National's last year without Spencer's contribution?? Probably pretty close to the expectations that many had at the beginning of last season.
Last year was under performing? Okie St. has done well to keep their under perform title. We certainly have not under performed more than them.
Other than that Mrs. Lincoln, how was the play?
I thought it was plain like her. I didn't appreciate the interruption.
Btw, punctuation matters.
Wrong - still exceeded preseason rankings and March rankings. Use google and look at the Bible of wrestling Flo and check their rankings. No one is more of an “expert” than flo.
Lot of (Texas) twisting of history by a few posters.
Funny. Same was said about Spencer this time last year. After all, you could give him the nickname “the field”. I ain’t counting him out until it counts.
How many of the bonus points came solely from Lee and how would Iowa have placed without Lee's redshirt being pulled? You cannot ignore the Lee difference; but, you are. I listed the weights we under preformed at and you produce a lame excuse for 165 - "he over preformed". That is so lame.
1. Performed*
2. Take away Spencer and the hawks finish with 70 pts, 30 points ahead of where they were predicted to finish according to the first flo ranking of that season. He scored 7 bonus points out of the team's 30.5 bonus points. This nearly triples the average for the hawks over the last 5 years, 11.9. Even if you take Spencer's 7 away, the hawkeyes doubled their 5 year average.
3. Again, Marinelli was ranked 14th to start the year. He was not predicted to place by most pundits at the time. He then went undefeated through the regular season. If you compare expectations (not including homer hawk fans) from the beginning of the year to what he did, he over performed. He may have had a disappointing finish, but only because expectations were raised after he over performed all year. It's not that hard.
Let's look at another example from last year. Ben Darmstadt started the year unranked at 197. In his greyshirt year, he was pinned by Rocco Caywood (who didn't qualify that year), majored by Ben Honis (who went 1-2), and majored by Frank Mattiace (who also went 1-2). Darmstadt was not expected to be a major factor at 197. In other words, expectations were low. Then he went on to a 30-1 regular season and the #2 seed. He finished 6th. His tournament was disappointing based on the season he had (like Marinelli), but he way over performed preseason expectations and showed tremendous progression from the previous year (like Marinelli).
Again, to say that we had a disappointing tournament is nuts. 6 of our 9 wrestlers finished at or above their seed and they scored the most bonus points of any team at the tournament. Our guys recorded 9 upsets over opponents seeded higher than them and were only beaten by a lower seeded wrestler 4 times (twice with Sorensen, once with Marinelli, and once with Stoll).
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