Iowa Wrestling is Dead

[Inthecircle]

A couple of things from last night. We got physically taken to the wood shed. PSU came out slapping and were heavy handed and then got to work. This team is a collection of physical specimen’s. I don’t know how they do it.
Technically they don’t allow shin whizers, they all scramble well and when they shoot their feet never stop until they get the TD or work into a stalemate.
They just physically manhandled us.

 

[Sett1997]

That’s logical. If someone regresses we blame the coaching. If they make great improvements we credit the athlete and not the coaching. Got it.

Yeah, we have one guy that appears to be improving. Actually backs up my statement.

 

[Bucky712]

How many Hawkeyes were skunked last night? 3 or 4? Couldn’t even muster a point.

 

[LIV4GOD]

A couple of things from last night. We got physically taken to the wood shed. PSU came out slapping and were heavy handed and then got to work. This team is a collection of physical specimen’s. I don’t know how they do it.
Technically they don’t allow shin whizers, they all scramble well and when they shoot their feet never stop until they get the TD or work into a stalemate.
They just physically manhandled us.

This is irrefutable. And what justifiable excuse is there for us being the distinctive weaker wrestlers?

 

[MitchLL]

I think bringing in the ferries killed any room chemistry. Rathjen and Glazier took exception. Leaders both.

That's a "copout".

How do you explain Woods step backwards?

 

[MitchLL]

How many Hawkeyes were skunked last night? 3 or 4? Couldn’t even muster a point.

I could be off, but I think Iowa only had 5 takedown in 10 matches. Threw by Rathjen.

 

[PD4thespawn]

That's a "copout".

How do you explain Woods step backwards?

Mitch, you guys just aren't peaking yet, relax

 

[Inthecircle]

I sat next to one of the starter’s grandparents last night and there has been a bad flu bug in the room. Prior to the Michigan meet, this starter hadn’t practiced all week before the dual.
If you miss a full week of practice at this point of the season, it’s going to take awhile to get back into full wrestling shape.
This needs to be taken into consideration as to how we’ve performed recently. This isn’t the answer to all of our woes, however you can’t just ignore it.

 

[MAGAman]

I sat next to one of the starter’s grandparents last night and there has been a bad flu bug in the room. Prior to the Michigan meet, this starter hadn’t practiced all week before the dual.
If you miss a full week of practice at this point of the season, it’s going to take awhile to get back into full wrestling shape.
This needs to be taken into consideration as to how we’ve performed recently. This isn’t the answer to all of our woes, however you can’t just ignore it.

Man brands should disinfect the room multiple times a day. Our room has more sicknesses than any room ive heard of.

 

[DeangeloVickers]

I sat next to one of the starter’s grandparents last night and there has been a bad flu bug in the room. Prior to the Michigan meet, this starter hadn’t practiced all week before the dual.
If you miss a full week of practice at this point of the season, it’s going to take awhile to get back into full wrestling shape.
This needs to be taken into consideration as to how we’ve performed recently. This isn’t the answer to all of our woes, however you can’t just ignore it.

We seem to get the flu before big matches where we end up underperforming more than every other program combined.

 

[wahlberg]

I sat next to one of the starter’s grandparents last night and there has been a bad flu bug in the room. Prior to the Michigan meet, this starter hadn’t practiced all week before the dual.
If you miss a full week of practice at this point of the season, it’s going to take awhile to get back into full wrestling shape.
This needs to be taken into consideration as to how we’ve performed recently. This isn’t the answer to all of our woes, however you can’t just ignore it.

I actually thought we wrestled decent (for who we currently are) on the whole last night, although Woods and Franek had down nights (maybe you sat by one of their grandfathers). To me, that makes it even worse regarding the state of our program that we can wrestle decent and still get utterly dominated like that.

 

[Rustys Dad]

One thing I wonder: many times Brands says we need to be mentally ready. We need to be more aggressive … we need to stop leaving points on the mat …. Pretty consistent theme from Tom… so … why aren’t we? Coaching? Recruiting?

The gap with PSU is getting to that deeply concerned level. They keep reloading with young guys to step right in. And while we hammer the “other” schools - Michigan and PSU schooled us. I don’t see that gap closing unless Iowa wrestlers/recruiting/coaching makes some upgrades … and soon.

 

[mcpat]

I think you guys are being too hard on the team.

According to the Des Moines Register, Ayala and Rathjen dominated, with six matches to go Iowa was in striking distance with winnable matches left, and had one or two of the Iowa veterans wrestled better and had Gabe been in the lineup, the dual could have turned out differently.

If Iowa wrestling's veterans can bounce back, the Hawkeyes are capable of reaching goals

If Iowa wrestling's veterans can bounce back, they are still capable of success

www.desmoinesregister.com

 

[nu2u]

For me, it's not the loss to PSU that stings so much... It is the complete abscence of fire and aggression.

In his post match press conference Brands again pointed out that the Hawkeyes were not aggressive from the start. “We got to be ready to go”, he reiterated. This is a recurring theme; Brands has stated this many times over the past few years.

Any ideas why this message is not getting through to the team?

I don’t know about other fans, but I can better stomach a loss in matches where I see the wrestler being aggressive and taking shots early.

 

[nu2u]

One thing I wonder: many times Brands says we need to be mentally ready. We need to be more aggressive … we need to stop leaving points on the mat …. Pretty consistent theme from Tom… so … why aren’t we? Coaching? Recruiting?

Exactly. I was typing the same questions when you posted this.

 

[grapplefann]

Carl was going to own him eventually at ISU as well. He was getting Taylor, he had Brown. He was starting to get the recruits. It would have taken a few more years is all. Carl hates to lose too much to wait and knew PSU was the perfect pot to cook in. At least we are not getting whipped by ISU every year.

Don't agree with your projection, and I get irritated with some of these sky-is-falling sorts of posts. It was PA money and talent-pool access at first. After that it's success breeding more success, and success is like compound interest: it feeds on itself. Lately, it's also been IA setback (Covid, gambling, and injuries, with a little character assassination from the Hawk-haters thrown in . . .)

I'm not saying that we're not in a slump, or that some changes don't need to be made, but granting sainthood for Carl doesn't help us, and hiring Carl's acolytes won't help us either. Most of Gable's guys never came close to matching Gable's success as a coach, so why should Carl's? Do you know of any other team besides the Nits who has won many NCAA Div 1 championships lately?

I do know that ringing our hands won't help. Only harder work will help. Our model to follow is Gary Kurdelmeier, the guy who first hired Gable as an assistant. He was tough, creative, and a great problem solver and promoter, and he brought Iowa it's first D1 championship. He also knew when to leave and let someone else take over.

Let's start with digging up significantly more funding for both the team and for HWC, including the women at HWC. If this is an arms race, then we'd better build Star Wars.
Then let's launch those new facilities with a lot of promotion.
Then let's revamp the assistant coaching for the men's team with additional new middle and upper weight ringers. This requires more private money too.
Finally, let's take an all-hands-on-deck attitude to recruiting. It's like bass fishing in the modern age. It's not enough to cast a line from the dock. You have to find the deep water where the big fish lie, and use the right lure and tackle at just the right time. Let's have more good fisherman who know just where to fish, and what our fish want.

Ultimately, it's about fit. Not everyone will fit the current PSU mold in culture or attitude, or should want to. We have a long history as well, with over 100 years of tough small town and farm guys tearing through Sooners, Cowboys, Lions, Gophers, and the like, and getting a great university education while they do. Let's remember who we are and and get back to work, just like we always have. Stop whining and keep working.

 

[wahlberg]

One thing I wonder: many times Brands says we need to be mentally ready. We need to be more aggressive … we need to stop leaving points on the mat …. Pretty consistent theme from Tom… so … why aren’t we? Coaching? Recruiting?

The gap with PSU is getting to that deeply concerned level. They keep reloading with young guys to step right in. And while we hammer the “other” schools - Michigan and PSU schooled us. I don’t see that gap closing unless Iowa wrestlers/recruiting/coaching makes some upgrades … and soon.

I posted at length about this in several threads before last night’s dual (Someone Please Explain, Michigan Grades, and Is Brands Era Entering Zalesky Level?), but the answer is that Brands’ practice structure and process don’t facilitate those aims (quite the opposite actually).

 

[Inthecircle]

I actually thought we wrestled decent (for who we currently are) on the whole last night, although Woods and Franek had down nights (maybe you sat by one of their grandfathers). To me, that makes it even worse regarding the state of our program that we can wrestle decent and still get utterly dominated like that.

I am not sure I follow? (It was neither one, so it’s down to 8). I didn’t expect Franek and Caliendo to get dominated like they did. Woods was in it until the end. If you’re still reeling from illness or injury, you are affected. It’s clear we were not up to the task in those three bouts. If we see those matches again at Big Tens, and the performance is the same, I’ll be disappointed.
Will you be shocked if Bartlett, Haines and Messenbrink win titles?

 

[DeangeloVickers]

9 out of 10 matches we were clearly the physically weaker wrestler. If you're not going to recruit blue chippers, you damn well better develop the heck out of the guys you do bring in. That starts with strength and conditioning. Figure out the best mad scientist available and pay him what it takes to come run a year round program. That's step 1 imo.

 

[wahlberg]

Don't agree with your projection, and I get irritated with some of these sky-is-falling sorts of posts. It was PA money and talent-pool access at first. After that it's success breeding more success, and success is like compound interest: it feeds on itself. Lately, it's also been IA setback (Covid, gambling, and injuries, with a little character assassination from the Hawk-haters thrown in . . .)

I'm not saying that we're not in a slump, or that some changes don't need to be made, but granting sainthood for Carl doesn't help us, and hiring Carl's acolytes won't help us either. Most of Gable's guys never came close to matching Gable's success as a coach, so why should Carl's? Do you know of any other team besides the Nits who has won many NCAA Div 1 championships lately?

I do know that ringing our hands won't help. Only harder work will help. Our model to follow is Gary Kurdelmeier, the guy who first hired Gable as an assistant. He was tough, creative, and a great problem solver and promoter, and he brought Iowa it's first D1 championship. He also knew when to leave and let someone else take over.

Let's start with digging up significantly more funding for both the team and for HWC, including the women at HWC. If this is an arms race, then we'd better build Star Wars.
Then let's launch those new facilities with a lot of promotion.
Then let's revamp the assistant coaching for the men's team with additional new middle and upper weight ringers. This requires more private money too.
Finally, let's take an all-hands-on-deck attitude to recruiting. It's like bass fishing in the modern age. It's not enough to cast a line from the dock. You have to find the deep water where the big fish lie, and use the right lure and tackle at just the right time. Let's have more good fisherman who know just where to fish, and what our fish want.

Ultimately, it's about fit. Not everyone will fit the current PSU mold in culture or attitude, or should want to. We have a long history as well, with over 100 years of tough small town and farm guys tearing through Sooners, Cowboys, Lions, Gophers, and the like, and getting a great university education while they do. Let's remember who we are and and get back to work, just like we always have. Stop whining and keep working.

We’ve tried your way bud. It ain’t working. I think Brands could shoot your dog and you’d still offer him your sister.

 

[blcoach80]

Just a thought, but maybe we are not aggressive and willing to let it fly is because we are not good scramblers and are afraid of getting countered by our opponents or getting into scramble situations??? Our recent aggressive wrestlers were good scramblers and finishers for the most part. That is what needs to be addressed with coaching imo.

 

[jonesy5960]

OP is correct. Iowa is officially a women's basketball school (at least for the next couple of months 😊).

 

[wahlberg]

I am not sure I follow? (It was neither one, so it’s down to 8). I didn’t expect Franek and Caliendo to get dominated like they did. Woods was in it until the end. If you’re still reeling from illness or injury, you are affected. It’s clear we were not up to the task in those three bouts. If we see those matches again at Big Tens, and the performance is the same, I’ll be disappointed.
Will you be shocked if Bartlett, Haines and Messenbrink win titles?

No, I wouldn’t be shocked if they win titles. My point was that, on the whole, I didn’t think our guys wrestled bad last night compared to their typical performances aside from Woods and Franek, so I’m not sure we can put much blame on a sickness going around. Did we expect to perform much better if there wasn’t a sickness going around last night?

 

[Bulldogs1974]

Just an uneducated basketball coach here that loves Iowa wrestling (probably not as much as most of you) but here are my questions that maybe some of you can answer.
1. Why do we never seem like the better team on top? We seem to get ridden like Seattle slew, everyone puts their legs in and we can’t get out.
2. Psu seemed like a high octane offense, agressive at taking shots, putting multiple together. Am I wrong we just seem to play position on the mat and wait for a mistake.
3 their guys seems like they were all a weight heavier than our guys with longer arms. Do we excel at 4 year weight cutting and maintenance? Do psu guys move up weights over their four years? Vs ours?
3 is it me (maybe wrestlers are just better today) but I swear when gable coaches it seemed like we scored right before the end of periods more frequently?
4 was the poor team showing at Michigan a result of poor planning/training during the week? Or just bad matchups?
5 the football and basketball have serious borderline criminal deficiencies on one end of the field/court but I don’t see the gap between them and the #1 team in the country as this meet showed. Is that a fair assessment of where we stand in the wrestling world. I think football was forced to take a step in the right direction. Basketball, I think fran should be replaced, their defense is possibly is worse than the football teams offense and he has ignored it. So is Tom the right man for the job? Or should Beth step in? I think we have too many similar thinkers on staff.

 

[mcpat]

Just an uneducated basketball coach here that loves Iowa wrestling (probably not as much as most of you) but here are my questions that maybe some of you can answer.
1. Why do we never seem like the better team on top? We seem to get ridden like Seattle slew, everyone puts their legs in and we can’t get out.
2. Psu seemed like a high octane offense, agressive at taking shots, putting multiple together. Am I wrong we just seem to play position on the mat and wait for a mistake.
3 their guys seems like they were all a weight heavier than our guys with longer arms. Do we excel at 4 year weight cutting and maintenance? Do psu guys move up weights over their four years? Vs ours?
3 is it me (maybe wrestlers are just better today) but I swear when gable coaches it seemed like we scored right before the end of periods more frequently?
4 was the poor team showing at Michigan a result of poor planning/training during the week? Or just bad matchups?
5 the football and basketball have serious borderline criminal deficiencies on one end of the field/court but I don’t see the gap between them and the #1 team in the country as this meet showed. Is that a fair assessment of where we stand in the wrestling world. I think football was forced to take a step in the right direction. Basketball, I think fran should be replaced, their defense is possibly is worse than the football teams offense and he has ignored it. So is Tom the right man for the job? Or should Beth step in? I think we have too many similar thinkers on staff.

In 2020, Iowa won the Big Ten Championship and were the favorites to win the NCAA championship, but it was cancelled due to Covid.

In 2021, Iowa was national champions.

In 2022, Iowa finished 3rd nationally.

In 2023, Iowa was national runner-ups.

During this time period, their dual meet record is 57-4.

Prior to 2020, they were consistently a top 3 team for the prior decade. Prob 2nd best overall.

Is Penn St way ahead? Yes. Is anyone else doing it better than Iowa? No.

So if you want to fire the 2nd most successful coach in the sport, do so with caution is my opinion. You’d better have someone else that can do it as well.

 

[wahlberg]

In 2020, Iowa won the Big Ten Championship and were the favorites to win the NCAA championship, but it was cancelled due to Covid.

In 2021, Iowa was national champions.

In 2022, Iowa finished 3rd nationally.

In 2023, Iowa was national runner-ups.

During this time period, their dual meet record is 57-4.

Prior to 2020, they were consistently a top 3 team for the prior decade. Prob 2nd best overall.

Is Penn St way ahead? Yes. Is anyone else doing it better than Iowa? No.

So if you want to fire the 2nd most successful coach in the sport, do so with caution is my opinion. You’d better have someone else that can do it as well.

Apples to Oranges. Nobody else has Iowa’s fan base, tradition, support, etc. Zalesky probably had the 2nd best results during his tenure too.

 

[Bulldogs1974]

In 2020, Iowa won the Big Ten Championship and were the favorites to win the NCAA championship, but it was cancelled due to Covid.

In 2021, Iowa was national champions.

In 2022, Iowa finished 3rd nationally.

In 2023, Iowa was national runner-ups.

During this time period, their dual meet record is 57-4.

Prior to 2020, they were consistently a top 3 team for the prior decade. Prob 2nd best overall.

Is Penn St way ahead? Yes. Is anyone else doing it better than Iowa? No.

So if you want to fire the 2nd most successful coach in the sport, do so with caution is my opinion. You’d better have someone else that can do it as well.

The real question, in my opinion, is that success built on Iowa’s tradition and deeper pockets or is it because of Tom? Is there a great young coach that can recruit or excite recruits? In the nil era, is there a coach that can attract transfers to fill holes?

 

[MVPFAN]

In 2020, Iowa won the Big Ten Championship and were the favorites to win the NCAA championship, but it was cancelled due to Covid.

In 2021, Iowa was national champions.

In 2022, Iowa finished 3rd nationally.

In 2023, Iowa was national runner-ups.

During this time period, their dual meet record is 57-4.

Prior to 2020, they were consistently a top 3 team for the prior decade. Prob 2nd best overall.

Is Penn St way ahead? Yes. Is anyone else doing it better than Iowa? No.

So if you want to fire the 2nd most successful coach in the sport, do so with caution is my opinion. You’d better have someone else that can do it as well.

A PSU fan happy to see Iowa flounder distantly in irrelevance.

 

[grapplefann]

Just an uneducated basketball coach here that loves Iowa wrestling (probably not as much as most of you) but here are my questions that maybe some of you can answer.
1. Why do we never seem like the better team on top? We seem to get ridden like Seattle slew, everyone puts their legs in and we can’t get out.
2. Psu seemed like a high octane offense, agressive at taking shots, putting multiple together. Am I wrong we just seem to play position on the mat and wait for a mistake.
3 their guys seems like they were all a weight heavier than our guys with longer arms. Do we excel at 4 year weight cutting and maintenance? Do psu guys move up weights over their four years? Vs ours?
3 is it me (maybe wrestlers are just better today) but I swear when gable coaches it seemed like we scored right before the end of periods more frequently?
4 was the poor team showing at Michigan a result of poor planning/training during the week? Or just bad matchups?
5 the football and basketball have serious borderline criminal deficiencies on one end of the field/court but I don’t see the gap between them and the #1 team in the country as this meet showed. Is that a fair assessment of where we stand in the wrestling world. I think football was forced to take a step in the right direction. Basketball, I think fran should be replaced, their defense is possibly is worse than the football teams offense and he has ignored it. So is Tom the right man for the job? Or should Beth step in? I think we have too many similar thinkers on staff.

Hi Bulldog,
These are very valid points,. and for a basketball coach, you have pretty good handle on things without resorting to slander or name-calling. I would say that historically, PSU is a special case right now, like Gable's teams were in the 1980s-1990s. As the follow-up poster said, if there was a consistently better-coached team out there besides PSU, that would be news to us, but there isn't. A head coaching change might put us in closer contention, but it also might make us drop like Oklahoma or Iowa State did. If there is great young coaching talent who could recruit or excite recruits for Iowa, they haven't surfaced yet.

 

[grapplefann]

A PSU troll happy to see Iowa flounder distantly in irrelevance.

FIFY

 

[mcpat]

Part of the problem is that the best guys now get paid enough to keep competing. Gone are the days of the best college wrestlers doing a few years of post-collegiate freestyle and then entering coaching in their mid to late 20s to get paid.

 

[MAGAman]

Hi Bulldog,
These are very valid points,. and for a basketball coach, you have pretty good handle on things without resorting to slander or name-calling. I would say that historically, PSU is a special case right now, like Gable's teams were in the 1980s-1990s. As the follow-up poster said, if there was a consistently better-coached team out there besides PSU, that would be news to us, but there isn't. A head coaching change might put us in closer contention, but it also might make us drop like Oklahoma or Iowa State did. If there is great young coaching talent who could recruit or excite recruits for Iowa, they haven't surfaced yet.

Id put okie state staff right up there now with coleman scott added.

 

[wahlberg]

Id put okie state staff right up there now with coleman scott added.

He does seem to be on the rise. Smart hire by OKST

 

[dtripp26]

Ultimately, it's about fit. Not everyone will fit the current PSU mold in culture or attitude, or should want to. We have a long history as well, with over 100 years of tough small town and farm guys tearing through Sooners, Cowboys, Lions, Gophers, and the like, and getting a great university education while they do. Let's remember who we are and and get back to work, just like we always have. Stop whining and keep working.

I think it's been proven that "working harder" is not the answer.

The Gable era mentality of out-working everyone is dead. We haven't adapted from that and it's a big part of our problems.

 

[MitchLL]

Iowa has been so good for so long that fans are upset with the current situation, obviously.

Part of the issue is that Iowa high school wrestling is still struggling to improve. There have been strides made, but it was so far behind OH/MI/PA and that doesn't get fixed in 6 or 7 years.

We know 95% of D-1 programs would kill to have Iowa's problems, but there are changes necessary.

 

[Pennstate1985]

In 2020, Iowa won the Big Ten Championship and were the favorites to win the NCAA championship, but it was cancelled due to Covid.

In 2021, Iowa was national champions.

In 2022, Iowa finished 3rd nationally.

In 2023, Iowa was national runner-ups.

During this time period, their dual meet record is 57-4.

Prior to 2020, they were consistently a top 3 team for the prior decade. Prob 2nd best overall.

Is Penn St way ahead? Yes. Is anyone else doing it better than Iowa? No.

So if you want to fire the 2nd most successful coach in the sport, do so with caution is my opinion. You’d better have someone else that can do it as well.

I'd go a step further. Tom is under contract through 2029, when he will be over 60. He's a great coach, just not the best. Hire the right assistant(s) NOW so that in 2028 or 2029, Tom retires at which time the preferred assistant takes over. A nice transfer of power. As others have said, you have the second best coach currently but because of Tom's age, you need to start thinking transition. No need to fire Tom now. You won't find a better replacement tomorrow. His replacement is still 3-5 years of growth away. I'm not 100% sure of how it went with Gable, but probably something like that back in the 70's. Be patient and not rash.

 

[wahlberg]

I'd go a step further. Tom is under contract through 2029, when he will be over 60. He's a great coach, just not the best. Hire the right assistant(s) NOW so that in 2028 or 2029, Tom retires at which time the preferred assistant takes over. A nice transfer of power. As others have said, you have the second best coach currently but because of Tom's age, you need to start thinking transition. No need to fire Tom now. You won't find a better replacement tomorrow. His replacement is still 3-5 years of growth away. I'm not 100% sure of how it went with Gable, but probably something like that back in the 70's. Be patient and not rash.

You want us to go through 5 more years of this?!? Holy smokes. Eat the contract. Time to move on. This ain’t getting it done. We’ve been patient for 13 years, nearly 14. Don’t you reckon it’s about time Laban gives us our Rachel?

 

[Bulldogs1974]

I feel like in basketball fran should be fired or he needs to replace his entire staff.
Is toms staff filled with guys that are just yes men and simply maintain the status quo?

 

[el dub]

Yeah, we have one guy that appears to be improving. Actually backs up my statement.

Think about what you just typed….

 

[DeangeloVickers]

In 2020, Iowa won the Big Ten Championship and were the favorites to win the NCAA championship, but it was cancelled due to Covid.

In 2021, Iowa was national champions.

In 2022, Iowa finished 3rd nationally.

In 2023, Iowa was national runner-ups.

During this time period, their dual meet record is 57-4.

Prior to 2020, they were consistently a top 3 team for the prior decade. Prob 2nd best overall.

Is Penn St way ahead? Yes. Is anyone else doing it better than Iowa? No.

So if you want to fire the 2nd most successful coach in the sport, do so with caution is my opinion. You’d better have someone else that can do it as well.

If you ain't first you're last. That's the Iowa wrestling standard and it should be. Either you're catching up or falling behind. Which did you see last night?