Kemerer to 184 and Assad redshirting?

[IAChief32]

Unless I’m off on who is moving to what weight 184 is significantly tougher than 174. 184 has Dean, Amine, and Brooks. 174 has what Labriola and Starocci?

Amine still ranked at 174. I would add in Bolen, Deprez, and Hidlay. I think if there is a shot at having a 2021 Olympics, Amine does move up though...he already qualified his wt at the Olympics. Out of all of those guys, I would still argue Kemerer is the best wrestler if he is able to put on the weight to go up. It gives a guy like Brands a fair shot to AA and maybe sneak into the top 4.

 

[pumpdog20]

Unless I’m off on who is moving to what weight 184 is significantly tougher than 174. 184 has Dean, Amine, and Brooks. 174 has what Labriola and Starocci?

A lot of talk that Lewis might go 174, but I've got to think he'll hold 165 to try to make the olympic team at 74kg

 

[Ihawkd9times]

Massa is going to be a major force to reckon with at 174. Looks healthy now and I thought he looked great in freestyle this past year. Plus there is the Ringer dude n the room to push him daily. I will not be shocked if he is at the top of the podium in march. I would probably handicap a Massa- Brands match at 6-2 right now. 3 TD's vs 2 escapes

IMO 174 with Mehki, Massa, Starocci is tougher than 184 with Dean, Amine, Brooks, Caffey, Hidlay etc. 174 is just more elite top heavy horses that could beat Kem. 184 may be more top 10 quality like but winnable matches for Kem.

And bad news for us but I can see Starocci being as good if not better than Brooks when its all said and done. SO that PSU matchup will be fire regardless were he goes.

 

[24 so far]

Massa is going to be a major force to reckon with at 174. Looks healthy now and I thought he looked great in freestyle this past year. Plus there is the Ringer dude n the room to push him daily. I will not be shocked if he is at the top of the podium in march. I would probably handicap a Massa- Brands match at 6-2 right now. 3 TD's vs 2 escapes

IMO 174 with Mehki, Massa, Starocci is tougher than 184 with Dean, Amine, Brooks, Caffey, Hidlay etc. 174 is just more elite top heavy horses that could beat Kem. 184 may be more top 10 quality like but winnable matches for Kem.

And bad news for us but I can see Starocci being as good if not better than Brooks when its all said and done. SO that PSU matchup will be fire regardless were he goes.

Kem can handle all those Yahoo's at 174. Lock and load and don't worry about it.

 

[CP84]

But Brands got scouted and figured out. Very quality wrestler with a motor but lacks a top 20 offense for 184 and probably 174. Maybe he can develop some. His best chance to score significant points is 165 after Marinelli, if he can beat Redshirt Freshman Kennedy or further develop offense and go 174 after Kem. no shame in being a 2 year starter like the old days. I like to think he could be in Top 5 mix or higher as a senior

Brands didn't get scouted and figured out. He simply lacked the size/strength to compete at 174 last year. He doesn't lack offense. He routinely got in on opponent's legs but lacked the strength to finish.

A year in the weight room can make a lot of difference.

 

[crablegs1]

Kem can handle all those Yahoo's at 174. Lock and load and don't worry about it.

Agree. And same with the yahoos at 84. Mekhi is likely the best of the bunch though.

 

[Exo]

Brands didn't get scouted and figured out. He simply lacked the size/strength to compete at 174 last year. He doesn't lack offense. He routinely got in on opponent's legs but lacked the strength to finish.

A year in the weight room can make a lot of difference.

I think it was a little bit of both. His performance declined as the year went on after people saw him against Colbray and others. To say ppl didn't scout him more and to an extent "figure him out" isn't accurate. Yes he was undersized we all agree on that.

Very excited to see what he looks like this year. I'm expecting some big strides being made.

 

[CP84]

I think it was a little bit of both. His performance declined as the year went on after people saw him against Colbray and others. To say ppl didn't scout him more and to an extent "figure him out" isn't accurate. Yes he was undersized we all agree on that.

Very excited to see what he looks like this year. I'm expecting some big strides being made.

Where's the evidence?

He wasn't racking up points against Colbray. He had 1 TD all match in OT. He lost his very next match to Travis Stefanik 7-6. He beat a couple mid tier guys and then dropped 1 point matches to Wilcke and Braunagle at Midlands. He beat a bunch of lower division guys to win the Don Parker Open and finished by losing 8-2 to a very tough Anthony Moltavo.

I see absolutely no evidence that his performance declined as the year went on. Colbray was more his size and finished the year at 174.

 

[crablegs1]

I think it was a little bit of both. His performance declined as the year went on after people saw him against Colbray and others. To say ppl didn't scout him more and to an extent "figure him out" isn't accurate. Yes he was undersized we all agree on that.

Very excited to see what he looks like this year. I'm expecting some big strides being made.

I also don’t think scouting was much of a factor. Let’s face it, Brands is a grinder. He is going to win be being more physical and better conditioned than his opponents. That is an extremely hard way to win when you are 10-20 pounds undersized.

 

[CP84]

I also don’t think scouting was much of a factor. Let’s face it, Brands is a grinder. He is going to win be being more physical and better conditioned than his opponents. That is an extremely hard way to win when you are 10-20 pounds undersized.

Exactly, and Colbray was a true 174 wrestling at 184 to start the season. The other guys he faced were true 184.

 

[js8793]

I think it was a little bit of both. His performance declined as the year went on after people saw him against Colbray and others. To say ppl didn't scout him more and to an extent "figure him out" isn't accurate. Yes he was undersized we all agree on that.

Very excited to see what he looks like this year. I'm expecting some big strides being made.

I think you're spot on. A big problem he ran into is that he really has only 1 reliable attack. He has a left handed single with two set ups, near arm-far leg and inside reach off a left hand collar.

Once that was scouted, he had major issues that were exacerbated by his size. He didn't have the power to finish that single from extended positions or less than ideal angles. The lack of a secondary attack allowed opponents to really key on that single. Once guys keyed on it, while he still got to the leg occasionally, it was rarely in ideal position and he wasn't able to improve his position to finish because he was undersized.

That issue gets better at his proper weight, but he still needs to add a secondary attack if he wants to jump to title-contending level imo. Kemerer is one of the only guys I can think of that rely on mostly one attack, but what makes Kemerer elite is his finishing feel and how quickly he improves his position. It doesn't matter that every opponent knows he's going to attack head inside to their right leg, pop his head outside, and finish crackdown because most of them can't stop it anyway as long as he gets to the leg. I don't think Brands has that same feel and will be more reliant on his attacks being clean which means he can't allow his opponents to key on one attack.

 

[Exo]

Where's the evidence?

He wasn't racking up points against Colbray. He had 1 TD all match in OT. He lost his very next match to Travis Stefanik 7-6. He beat a couple mid tier guys and then dropped 1 point matches to Wilcke and Braunagle at Midlands. He beat a bunch of lower division guys to win the Don Parker Open and finished by losing 8-2 to a very tough Anthony Molavo.

I see absolutely no evidence that his performance declined as the year went on. Colbray was more his size and finished the year at 174.

Beating Colbray in Ames then losing to Wilcke and Braunagel would kind of be a decline. Not really interested in arguing this point much further but to insinuate opponents aren't scouring tape and figuring out things he does well against a kid like brands as the season goes on seems like bad position to take.

 

[bnicolls]

Last I heard, staff were having Kem do all he could to walk around in season at 180. Seems hard to believe he could then put on another 10 to 12 lbs and be a full sized 184.

I like Assad at 184 next year, then Brands and Kennedy coming in at 65 and 74 the following year.

 

[CP84]

Beating Colbray in Ames then losing to Wilcke and Braunagel would kind of be a decline. Not really interested in arguing this point much further but to insinuate opponents aren't scouring tape and figuring out things he does well against a kid like brands as the season goes on seems like bad position to take.

"Kind of decline?" He upset Colbray in OT with 1 TD, plain and simple. He lost 1 point matches to Wilcke/Braunagle. If that's a sign of decline then that argument wouldn't last 5 minutes in peer review. You'd also be arguing that he declined in about 30 days with only 1 dual between Iowa-ISU and Midlands.

I'm sure his 3rd round Midlands opponent was just scouring the tape on Brands over Christmas break for the prospect of a match up.

Nonsensical.

 

[IAChief32]

I also don’t think scouting was much of a factor. Let’s face it, Brands is a grinder. He is going to win be being more physical and better conditioned than his opponents. That is an extremely hard way to win when you are 10-20 pounds undersized.

 

[MVPFAN]

Last I heard, staff were having Kem do all he could to walk around in season at 180. Seems hard to believe he could then put on another 10 to 12 lbs and be a full sized 184.

I like Assad at 184 next year, then Brands and Kennedy coming in at 65 and 74 the following year.

Agree Bob.

There are going to be a few tough guys at each weight presenting comparable challenge for Kem, I'd rather he not be undersized/giving up horse power while taking on those challenges. 174 could have Lewis, Massa, Labriola and Starocci or Lewis could be 165. 184 looks to have Dean, Brooks, Amine, Hidlay, DePrez and Bolen. Guys wrestling too heavy is something I hate, they don't finish well and their offense tends to get neutralized, they tend to struggle on bottom and don't ride as well, very frustrating to watch.

 

[24 so far]

Agree. And same with the yahoos at 84. Mekhi is likely the best of the bunch though.

Mekhi is a beast, ain't no doubt, but Kem has a better arsenal than Marinelli, and I would pick The Bull in a rematch with Mekhi anyway. Mekhi snuck up on some folks I think, and those that are capable of beating him can find a way (short list, but The Bull is front and center on that list).

 

[Exo]

Imagine you are about to wrestle one of the best / most famous american wrestler's son and you and your coach say, "nah we don't need to scout this guy". Nelson Brands was the talk of FloWrestling and ranked like 6 after he beat Colbray but I'm sure his future competitors weren't aware.

 

[Boomhawk52]

Almost all starters get scouted. I remember from a short clip of brands he was saying this guy likes this and this guy that. It’s just smart to scout.

 

[IAChief32]

Imagine you are about to wrestle one of the best / most famous american wrestler's son and you and your coach say, "nah we don't need to scout this guy". Nelson Brands was the talk of FloWrestling and ranked like 6 after he beat Colbray but I'm sure his future competitors weren't aware.

You’re making a false argument here bubba...nobody is saying he doesn’t get scouted, it’s about him wrestling up two weights that matters the most.

 

[24 so far]

You’re making a false argument here bubba...nobody is saying he doesn’t get scouted, it’s about him wrestling up two weights that matters the most.

That is most definitely his biggest issue. He'd be a damn solid 65 lber in our lineup IMO, but it isn't meant to be currently.

 

[js8793]

You’re making a false argument here bubba...nobody is saying he doesn’t get scouted, it’s about him wrestling up two weights that matters the most.

And I don't think anybody was saying that him getting scouted was the biggest handicap. The scouting is what explains the difference in results from his first couple matches and the ones after. He found success early with his quickness to his single leg. Once that was scouted, guys were ready, his quickness advantage was nullified and he was overpowered.

Obviously, the size difference is what ultimately doomed him at 184, but the scouting was the final nail in the coffin.

 

[CurtisLoew40]

184 seems harder than where he's at now by far. Plus it doesn't put the best lineup on the mat.

 

[Jrjt0518]

Think people are underestimating Nelson big time. He wasnt an 84. He will be just fine at 74. I like it. He will be a tough out.

 

[hawknut]

You’re making a false argument here bubba...nobody is saying he doesn’t get scouted, it’s about him wrestling up two weights that matters the most.

CP84 said he didn’t get scouted in this very thread. Agree that weight was the biggest issue, but he totally got scouted and opponents were more prepared for him. No doubt about it.

 

[hawknut]

Think people are underestimating Nelson big time. He wasnt an 84. He will be just fine at 74. I like it. He will be a tough out.

Not one person on this thread has underestimated Nelson.

 

[KennyPowers8]

How does a Patrick Kennedy vs Nelson brands match go? I would be very interested in seeing that one in the room.

 

[Boomhawk52]

Not one person on this thread has underestimated Nelson.

nope. Think we all love him

 

[Exo]

CP84 said he didn’t get scouted in this very thread. Agree that weight was the biggest issue, but he totally got scouted and opponents were more prepared for him. No doubt about it.

Yep, everyone knows he's smaller and that is the main issue. It's just a few people making claims that he wasn't scouted or if he was scouted it didn't make any difference, lol.

 

[Jcchawk]

How does a Patrick Kennedy vs Nelson brands match go? I would be very interested in seeing that one in the room.

Kennedy

 

[Jcchawk]

"Kind of decline?" He upset Colbray in OT with 1 TD, plain and simple. He lost 1 point matches to Wilcke/Braunagle. If that's a sign of decline then that argument wouldn't last 5 minutes in peer review. You'd also be arguing that he declined in about 30 days with only 1 dual between Iowa-ISU and Midlands.

I'm sure his 3rd round Midlands opponent was just scouring the tape on Brands over Christmas break for the prospect of a match up.

Nonsensical.

If his last name wasn't Brands and he came here with the same accolades and performance he has given so far no one would be talking about him. He'll have his chance. After Marinelli and Kem graduate.

 

[DonHawkeye]

If his last name wasn't Brands and he came here with the same accolades and performance he has given so far no one would be talking about him. He'll have his chance. After Marinelli and Kem graduate.

I disagree. It is not only his name but the way he wrestles too. He would be an intriguing guy on the roster no matter his name.

 

[24 so far]

If his last name wasn't Brands and he came here with the same accolades and performance he has given so far no one would be talking about him. He'll have his chance. After Marinelli and Kem graduate.

His "performance" has been just fine regardless of his name. I'm confident plenty of people would be talking about him if were able to wrestle his optimal weight. He's not All-World by any stretch, and didn't come into the program that way like those ahead of him, but he'd be a handful for most.

 

[SPOONER]

His "performance" has been just fine regardless of his name. I'm confident plenty of people would be talking about him if were able to wrestle his optimal weight. He's not All-World by any stretch, and didn't come into the program that way like those ahead of him, but he'd be a handful for most.

This can be true while at the same time not be a guy you re-arrange your lineup for, especially when the guy he’d be replacing is a handful himself. Oh, and it involves moving an absolute stud to a tougher weight where he’d be undersized.

 

[crablegs1]

This can be true while at the same time not be a guy you re-arrange your lineup for, especially when the guy he’d be replacing is a handful himself. Oh, and it involves moving an absolute stud to a tougher weight where he’d be undersized.

Rearranging the lineup for him is a mischaracterization. No one is proposing that. The lineup may change and Brands might end up in it.

Plus you have no idea that Kem would be undersized. Many thought it was crazy to bump to 74. After all he was a clear #2 behind Nolf at 57 and he would be undersized at 74.

 

[IAChief32]

If his last name wasn't Brands and he came here with the same accolades and performance he has given so far no one would be talking about him. He'll have his chance. After Marinelli and Kem graduate.

He went undefeated his freshman year plus had a solid summer; he beat guys in both styles that were more highly ranked than him plus a former Iowa starter.

For the “he got scouted” guys: You don’t think there was a book on Nelson before he won a few matches at 184? Everybody in the gym knows Metcalf liked his left side hi-c’s, Spencer is going to work for a tilt, or Desantos firemans...it’s whether one can impose their will on others. At 165, Brands would have had a solid chance to do that on a regular basis except for a few guys at that weight. If Stefanik was the same size, Nelson puts it on him.

 

[24 so far]

This can be true while at the same time not be a guy you re-arrange your lineup for, especially when the guy he’d be replacing is a handful himself. Oh, and it involves moving an absolute stud to a tougher weight where he’d be undersized.

Uuummm, OK........???????

My point was and is he's a damn capable guy at his optimal weight whether his name is Brands or Johnson, that is all.

 

[SPOONER]

Rearranging the lineup for him is a mischaracterization. No one is proposing that. The lineup may change and Brands might end up in it.

Plus you have no idea that Kem would be undersized. Many thought it was crazy to bump to 74. After all he was a clear #2 behind Nolf at 57 and he would be undersized at 74.

Sure seems like it.

Kemerer had a season off to grow into 174 and even then he was walking around where many 165 pounders are in the offseason.

Uuummm, OK........???????

My point was and is he's a damn capable guy at his optimal weight whether his name is Brands or Johnson, that is all.

My reply wasn't to disagree with you in any way.

 

[UndercoverHawk]

He went undefeated his freshman year plus had a solid summer; he beat guys in both styles that were more highly ranked than him plus a former Iowa starter.

For the “he got scouted” guys: You don’t think there was a book on Nelson before he won a few matches at 184? Everybody in the gym knows Metcalf liked his left side hi-c’s, Spencer is going to work for a tilt, or Desantos firemans...it’s whether one can impose their will on others. At 165, Brands would have had a solid chance to do that on a regular basis except for a few guys at that weight. If Stefanik was the same size, Nelson puts it on him.

This. He beat the 4 seed at 165 just this last summer.

 

[24 so far]

Sure seems like it.

Kemerer had a season off to grow into 174 and even then he was walking around where many 165 pounders are in the offseason.




My reply wasn't to disagree with you in any way.

Fair enough. I agree to what you replied, it just didn't make any sense in response to what I wrote IMO.