I hope you are right. As it stands it’s the only thing that can keep him from being a 4Xer. Nobody is touching a healthy, conditioned Spencer Lee.
Nebby grades
- Thread starter IRONBIRD
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I highly doubt he has any clue what other teams fans think. He’s pretty obsessed with our board and our fans. Aren’t we lucky.
I also should have realized that since the Gophers won last nite and the Huskers lost...today he's probably on the Gopher's forum.
Iowa wrestling is like the Cowboys in the NFL and the Yankees in MLB. They are always under a microscope because their haters love to hate them more than they like their own team. You really don’t have knowledge of what goes on at other duals because nobody cares. As long as you can hate on Iowa you go to bed happy.
Yeah, I was going big picture w/ the original “common denominator” comment. I’m no Manning fan, either.
On the contrary, I follow plenty of other wrestling to make an informed opinion. And truth be told, I went to bed happy last night (this morning) because of the Andonian-Scott match . . . and not knowing a thing of the latest drama at CHA.
Edit to add: It’s nothing about the Cowboys and Yankees that make people hate on them. It’s their fans with whom people have the problem. While that circumstance may ring true with respect to some fans on this board, I thing there are bigger things driving the boat.
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Do you sit out Warner so the boogieman doesn’t break him in two?
I could see PSU forfeiting 125.
I could see PSU forfeiting 125.
I’m guessing he’s getting in wrestling shape in the room…… rolling with Desanto and Dennis….. to me he’s looking better every match….. hard to tell as short as they are
While I don't disagree overall about your premise, but part of it at this point is just a self fulfilling prophecy.
Iowa has a reputation that our coaches and fans are always looking for trouble, and so there's more scrutiny on us, and other teams come in expecting something to happen, and are ready at moment's notice to "fight back". Then when a situation occurs, regardless of who started it, it's all "see! Iowa is bad!" and even more negative scrutiny comes our way and teams come in even more expecting a fight.
Doesn't matter who started it or not, if Iowa is involved in any way, it somehow reflects on us and just keeps leading down this path
I agree some of this is in play. Kinda like how some wrestlers seemed to go out of their way to poke ADS his last couple of seasons. Once it was “a thing”, it grew.
To follow up, @slushhead , you specifically mentioned Dresser and Bastida.
Dresser once specifically called our coaching staff "pussies" and has been otherwise lobbing insults at our staff ever since he got to ISU. During the dual this year, Swid takes two clubs to Real after time was out after losing, and Real responded. Bastida was out there tongue wagging and blowing kisses and taunting Warner the whole match, until Warner finally responded (and Warner NEVER reacts like that, so you know it must've been pretty bad).
And yet......somehow Iowa is to blame for all that.
Can you imagine if the roles were reversed, and Tom called their coaching staff "pussies"? If one of our guys took a few post whistle clubs at someone after losing? If one of our guys was blowing kisses and otherwise taunting? They would be absolutely reviled! But when it's another team doing it to us, it's OK because "well Iowa has a reputation"
Dresser once specifically called our coaching staff "pussies" and has been otherwise lobbing insults at our staff ever since he got to ISU. During the dual this year, Swid takes two clubs to Real after time was out after losing, and Real responded. Bastida was out there tongue wagging and blowing kisses and taunting Warner the whole match, until Warner finally responded (and Warner NEVER reacts like that, so you know it must've been pretty bad).
And yet......somehow Iowa is to blame for all that.
Can you imagine if the roles were reversed, and Tom called their coaching staff "pussies"? If one of our guys took a few post whistle clubs at someone after losing? If one of our guys was blowing kisses and otherwise taunting? They would be absolutely reviled! But when it's another team doing it to us, it's OK because "well Iowa has a reputation"
Dresser has a severe case of "penis envy".
Personally, I find it entertaining.
You know he lays awake at night thinking of TnT.
From the days of Evans, Gilman, etc. — heck, maybe even the Brandses — on up to ADS, we could go back and forth trying to pin down whose deficiencies in good sportsmanship are to blame. In the end, I see coaches reacting to the Iowa corner. I see individual wrestlers (while on the mat) reacting to the Iowa corner. Last night is something like the 3rd incident I’ve heard or seen concerning Terry and handshakes in the past several years. The ball got rolling at some point years ago, and it only seems to be building steam each year now that the bullseye is flashing. I barely ever see that stuff going on with other teams — almost never with respect to wrestlers jawing with the opposing coach(es) in-match.
Obviously, Dresser and Manning play into it with the bigger escalations now and even instigate some of it. Some of that probably trickles down to a few of the wrestlers (e.g., Bastida, and I think it was Berger who was jawing w/ Terry during one of his matches one year?). But other programs not getting sucked into that game doesn’t mean Dresser and Manning are the only ones dealing with poor sportsmanship from the Iowa corner. Most choose to ignore it. Take the Michigan coaches, for example (not escalating the “You don’t like tough wrestling!” tantrum), or the ref who was having “you suck!” screamed into his face by a coach.
I bet the flare-ups subside quite a bit when Terry moves on . . . unless another such personality is brought on to replace him. Tom seems to have improved in the self-control department over the years, but I think few view them as different people.
I don't really disagree with any of this. Where us Iowa fans see Tom and Terry as intense as passionate, I can see why other teams' fans see what they do as provocation. Like I said though, I think at this point its more self-fulfilling prophecy than anything. It just annoys me when situations like last night happen and rather than people rightfully condemning the Nebraska coaching staff and Labriola for getting into it with fans to a point that apparently a punch was thrown, it instead becomes "well of course Iowa was in the wrong and the other side wasn't"
If you are both Hawk fans, I’ll apologize up front if my expectations are too high. That said, plenty of us feel he can do better but “Warner bashing” and “savagely criticized” seem a bit harsh. There were high expectations for Warner coming into the Iowa program. A program built by winning championships on conditioning, aggressive & gritty wrestling under Gable. While Jacob is on the verge of possibly becoming a 4 time AA (no small feat), as fans we still care enough to want more for him. As quoted many times, “you get what you earn”. We hope to see him “earn” a trip to the top of the podium.
Someone also mentioned, past performance is no guarantee of future results or something to that effect…I would agree. Go Hawks!
I don’t think he’s doing much rolling with anyone, but I don’t know that for sure.
I said nothing about lowering expectations. I just asked for SOME of the grumps around here to show a little more respect to one of our athletes who takes far more shit then anybody else on the team. There is a difference between constructive criticism and eviscerating the guy. Sorry if you cant see the difference. We have no idea what is happening behind the scenes with an athlete. I'd like to think a 3xAA has earned the benefit of the doubt until proven differently at tournament time...particularly if you are a Hawk fan.
I appreciate the civil discourse. I don’t want to belabor the point and hijack the thread, and I see your point. Part of the equation IMO is benefit of the doubt having been lost after X number of incidents, and so people eventually stop wondering where the truth lies in any particular incident. When they think they see a pattern, that’s what they see.
Where I imagine we could agree is that fans and athletes should not be coming into contact immediately preceding, during, or immediately following competition.
Ooh, I like the numerical ranking. Nice twist, Ironbird.
I'm just gonna grade the dual meet as an A. This was the second really entertaining meet in a row. We've finally got our lineup in place (I think), and it showed. Numerically, definitely not a 99, but a solid 93.
I appreciate your comments. The reason he gets more play is because he clearly has the talent and folks want to see him wrestling with more confidence on a consistent basis. The odds are against Iowa winning a team championship this year but JWar has the talent to go out on top. Fans can be selfish but I assure you nothing malicious intended on my part. I want Jacob to finish his career as an NCAA champion. I believe he can & look forward to seeing how it all plays out in March. Thank you for being frank & sticking up for a Hawkeye!
From what I’ve seen, the team hasn’t been shaking hands after duals all year. I’ve only seen the coaches.
No idea but I just figure at this point the Brands let Spencer do as he needs in the room to whatever degree he feels. I’d hope they trust him to do what he feels is best.
I think we’ll be favored in 2-3 matches after the new rankings. Those PSU youngsters taking out Michigan’s AAs will shake up the rankings big time IMO.
We are favored for sure at 125 and 141. Penn St for sure at 133, 174 and 184. The rest are true toss ups.
149 Van Ness and Murin have a similar result against Paniro Johnson. Both lost by giving up a TD. Van Ness also lost to Gomez from Wisconsin and hasn’t beaten anyone in the top 15-20. This will most likely come down to a TD
157 Haines is very good and the win over Lewan was his best. Cobe needs to be smart and wrestle like he did against Chumbley. Slight edge to Haines
165 Facundo was very impressive beating Amine. Kennedy beat him at who’s number one a few years ago. Probably doesn’t mean much now but there is familiarity. True toss up
197 Edge to Dean because he’s beat Warner the last 2 times and Warner is struggling right now
285. Kerk beat Cass in the exhibition. Cass has looked good most of the year. Needs to push Kerk to the end like Parris did and can beat him late.
Spencer has to get 6. Teske/Schriever need to hold it to a Dec or MD at worst, same for Brands and Assad. Hoping Woods can get a couple 4 point tilts and get a MD against Bartlett. More confident in 149, 165 and HWY in the toss ups. Feel like 157 and 197 go to PSU
Best case for Iowa
125 Spencer fall 6-0
133 RBY decision 6-3
141 Woods MD 10-3
149 Murin Dec 13-3
157 Haines Dec 13-6
165 Kennedy Dec 16-6
174 Starocci Dec 16-9
184 Brooks Dec 16-12
197 Dean Dec Warner 16-15
285 Cass Dec Kerk 19-15
Could say Siebrecht beats Haines and it’s 22-12 but that means we win 4 of 5 of the toss ups. Not likely
You are right! What was I thinking??? Am I allowed to go back and make corrections?
I agree unfortunately. Lee and Woods are the only two I’m real comfortable with. Kennedy should win also, but I think it’ll be a nail biter.
RBY didn’t look great vs Ragusin, but Teske keeping it close is probably as close to a W as we get.
Van Ness is real good and Murin has a knack for winning or losing in dramatic fashion vs top guys.
Haines is a lot better than I thought he would be. He’s seems like podium material as a true frosh. Cobe is tough as nails, but Haines has a much better technical skill set and solid fundamentals.
Star is wrestling really well, Brands has shown he can keep it close with top guys, so I think he keeps it to a dec.
Assad needs to stay out of bonus, like he did last year.
JWar not wrestling with much confidence, not a good look when you are 0-2 against the competition.
Cass seems to be on a role and Kerk hit a bit of a speed bump vs Paris, hoping Cass can get back on the winning track against big Kirk.
I got it 18-15 PSU.
Nope, but I'll still give you a B for using 82.5 for Assad, but an F for assuming cesspoolers can round up.
Point taken I just know that our NCAA finalist Warner is much better than this…he’s taking all of his matches to the final minute before doing anything. Like Murin he needs to have confidence in his offense and execute it early. His opponents are figuring out his MO (hand fight to the end) and using it against him. He needs to change it up and shock some people!
I agree, I thought the Hawks as a whole looked very solid last night, winners and losers.
You’re thinking Glory will become a long distance runner like our finalist from ASU?
Not a bad game plan but I think Glory thinks he has a real chance and will go all in to win it in a face to face battle. I just hope Lee doesn’t taken him for granted…don’t want Lee to give Glory an 8-1 headstart. Love Spencer Lee and hate that this is his last year! So fortunate to experience his amazing Hawkeye career!!
Please don’t get all thin skinned on us.
If you’re referring to me I try to make my comments as respectful as possible, like I do for all of our men. I think - and include in my comments - he has the ability to take it to the house, but in the meantime I’m not going to pretend he’s bringing his A game. He’s capable of so much more than we’re seeing and I think we’re providing feedback that is commensurate with his efforts. Love our Hawks!!
Is this true?
If so, why is not more being made of it? That’s long suspension type of stuff.
My fear is that continuing this year’s trend will force him into a horrible NCAA bracket. Losing to upper tier guys is something, but I’m hating these losses as of late…
