*****Quincy vs Iowa (EXH) Game Thread*****
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Iowa 3 point shooting:
4-5 (80%) Pryce Sandfort
3-15 (20%) Rest of Team
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7-20 (35%) Overall
when they are 50 and older, those tattoos are going to be even more ugly
I didn't see the game. Thanks for the comments.
I'm not surprised that the starting front line of Krikke, PMac and Payton had problems defensively. There is no reason to think this will get better.
Disappointed to hear that Bowen did not play well, but glad to hear Harding was good. I like the idea of both sharing time at PG, with Perkins and Dix primarily at 2, but we definitely need one of the two to play high-level PG.
Great to hear that all of the freshmen played as advertised. The question becomes how much is Fran willing to go away from this initial starting lineup, which I think is going to be so bad defensively that it will take hero ball performances offensively to win. At least one of the starting front court needs to be moved to the bench, and I think most of us would agree who that should be.
I'm not surprised that the starting front line of Krikke, PMac and Payton had problems defensively. There is no reason to think this will get better.
Disappointed to hear that Bowen did not play well, but glad to hear Harding was good. I like the idea of both sharing time at PG, with Perkins and Dix primarily at 2, but we definitely need one of the two to play high-level PG.
Great to hear that all of the freshmen played as advertised. The question becomes how much is Fran willing to go away from this initial starting lineup, which I think is going to be so bad defensively that it will take hero ball performances offensively to win. At least one of the starting front court needs to be moved to the bench, and I think most of us would agree who that should be.
I’d love to see Freeman and Krikke together. But that means one of Patrick or Payton has to sit. Not sure Fran wants that.
I think the challenge for me with Krikke is that if he moves over to the 4, he's maybe even a worse defensive liability than he would be at the 5. I can't think of a single Big Ten 4 that wouldn't beat him off the dribble and I doubt he's comfortable running around and guarding guys on the perimeter. I think Iowa would be forced into zone quickly if we do something like a Freeman/Krikke/Sandfort front court and offensively, that lineup + Perkins creates a ton of spacing issues. It's really really hard to play 3 guys who aren't real 3 point threats together in modern basketball. Maybe Tony, Krikke and Freeman can show enough for defenders to actually guard them tight on the perimeter, but I think the safe starting point is assuming that these guys are all not real threats from 3.
I also know that it's been said, but these exhibition games show a lot of noisy stuff that doesn't translate to the actual season. I think it's really hard for veteran players to "get up" for these exhibition games which is why young players and rotational guys always look so much better--they are fighting for roles on this team. We can criticize it, but it's a reality for just about every team in the country for these D2 exhibitions. The most common example is the year that Syracuse lost to a D2 school in an exhibition at full health and then later became the #1 overall team and started 18-0 for the year.
I also know that it's been said, but these exhibition games show a lot of noisy stuff that doesn't translate to the actual season. I think it's really hard for veteran players to "get up" for these exhibition games which is why young players and rotational guys always look so much better--they are fighting for roles on this team. We can criticize it, but it's a reality for just about every team in the country for these D2 exhibitions. The most common example is the year that Syracuse lost to a D2 school in an exhibition at full health and then later became the #1 overall team and started 18-0 for the year.
Freeman is too good to give minutes away to this guy. Brauns looks like a nice garbage guy to come in and remind other teams bigs they are in a physical contest.
I agree, but he can "defend" the 5 with Dembele defending the 4 and maybe Freeman defending the 4 some times too.
I came away from that game mostly wanting to see more of those 2 frosh bigs, Dix and Price.
It will be interesting to see minutes played a week from now when it counts.
I think Fran continues to play 10 of the 12 scholarship players but Bowen's minutes might get cut if he doesn't start taking care of the ball better (he had 3 assists and 4 of Iowa's 14 turnovers).
I came away thinking Patrick and Payton should not be on floor together. And Bowen just isn’t very good.
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He was fine except for a couple dumb tos early.
Harding had dumb TOs too and got pocket picked at half court by a bigger player. He also had a couple nice dimes though.
Id expect about 60/40 Bowen/Harding.
Bowens not a true point but he's going to be the best option at defending the opposing point and by far the best option at getting to the rim, although Dix is pretty good there too which is why both should be starting with Perkins. We need more ballhandlers on the floor less slow forwards.
Everyone who played in the starting group looked worse than they are because it's a group that doesn't compliment eachothers strengths and skill sets.
The second 5 have significantly more complimentary skill sets.
Patrick probably shouldn't be seeing many minutes at all if we're being brutally honest.
I think Bowen has quite a bit of talent but isn't a true point.
Brock is probably going to struggle this year with defenders who are bigger and more athletic than he is but he'll probably have a lot of good moments too.
Agreed Patrick simply doesn’t defend or rebound well enough. Unless he’s hitting the 3 ball. I prefer Payton at that spot. Who would u think the best rotation would be. I’d probably have Freeman, Dix, Perkins, Delembee, Krikke, and both Sandaforts in there as much as possible.
I wouldn't go that far on Pat. Historically he has not been a good defender, but I just finished my rewatch focusing more on watching the defense and I think the Patrick looked fine. I counted 5 points scored against him which was the lowest amongst the starters. Gave up a drive early and then got over a bit too far on a help and gave up a wide open 3 in the 2nd half. I think he also gave up one offensive board. That was it. Actually thought he let the game come to him offensively too--looked like he drove with a purpose more, shot selection was fine except for the end of half step-back. And because of his size and how he plays, he's going to pick up fouls and shoot a lot of free throws. I'm honestly very encouraged by what I saw from him. Though I will cede that the rebounding still leaves a lot to be desired.
Bowen looked much much worse to me on the rewatch. For how quick he is, he's very bad at keeping his guy in front to be honest. Dix probably needs to start at point--he's a better offensive player, doesn't turn the ball over and he's a better perimeter defender. Not really much to argue with.
This is a very good point. Beyond the issues that you point out, having Krikke at the 5 also limits what we can do at the 4. We basically have to go "big" at the 4 spot, forcing us to use PMac, Freeman or Dembele at the 4. This forces Payton Sandfort to play the 3 spot where he will generally be at a quickness disadvantage. Payton Sandfort would be a handful for the opposing defense as a stretch 4 but a frontcourt of Sandfort+Krikke would be abysmal defensively. It seems to me like our three upperclassmen frontcourt starters are all useful offensive players without a good defensive position which will be hard to mask with any scheme. The good news, if there is any, is that Freeman and Dembele should actually be quality defensive players for us so there is light at the end of the tunnel.
Another thing worth considering is that back in 2014-2016, when our defense was actually good, we often had very tall/long lineups (both forwards being 6'7 or taller and a 7' center). Food for thought when it comes to decisions about whether we should go for a small and quick frontcourt vs a tall and slow frontcourt.
Patrick isn't necessarily a bad player but he's simply not as good as the other options at the 3 or 4 spots.
At this point I'm really not interested in a Bowen vs Dix when it would be far more effective to play them together and stop trying to shoe horn 3 slow forwards on the court together.
Again, the defensive issues last night had nothing to do with our slow footed forwards and were primarily coming from our guards and Krikke.
I wish we played more 3 guard lineups, but that's not going to be a go-to lineup with only 4 true guards on the roster. Which is why I hope Fran brings in a couple of guard transfers via the portal this off-season.
The reality is that we will start off with an 11 man rotation in which 7 of them are forwards & bigs. So it's much more likely we see only 2 guards in together at any given time. Basically the rotation currently is:
Point: Bowen / Harding
2: Perkins / Dix
3: Patrick / Pryce
4: Payton / Dembele
5: Krikke / Freeman / Brauns
And while there will be some mix and matching and I don't think Fran will do actual hockey lineup changes once the regular season goes on, I think he will mostly stick to this. With Dix flexing to some point at times and Krikke flexing to some 4 at times.
Not to beat the dead horse, BUT, I'm pretty sure this will be another year of an occasional decent game for Pmac followed by him being a total albatross in several others. Unfortunately Fran continues trying to fit square pegs into round holes with players playing out of position, JUST so Pat is on the floor. By himself, he's capable of adding something to the team, but the issue is the adjustments Fran makes in order to facilitate him playing more or starting. Last year it was trying to start PS at the 2 so that he and Pat would both be starting. Horrible idea. If Pat is in the game we can't have other liabilities around him who can't or won't defend or hit the glass. PS is at least willing to do both, but he can't be playing as a guard in defense out on the perimeter, especially with several other sub par defenders behind. Krikke will be hard pressed to defend playing behind Pat and other perimeter players who can't stay in front of their man.
To me,Payton looked a lot like last year. Mixed it up on the boards, got taken off the dribble once, missed a few wide open threes. But he didn’t have a bad game by any means. Brother Pryce was pretty impressive shooting the ball though. Probably the most impressive of the newcomers.
Bowen also looked a lot like last year. A few questionable turnovers, but did have one nice take to the rim for an easy layup.
Dembele had the play of the game in my opinion. Quincy had a breakaway and Dembele was the only one back. He ran up the opposite side of the court and timed it perfectly at the rim. Swatted the hell out of the guy that would make Mutombo smile. Shot an 18’er and missed but his shot looks alright.
Harding had a nice pass to Freeman. Drove the baseline and drew a couple of defenders. You can see the chemistry between these two. Freeman had a nice dunk and a few easy baskets. Krikke reminds you of a Rebraca and he was able to get a few easy buckets around the rim.
At one point Harding got into it with one of the Hawks players. I didn’t see what happened, but Quincy had called a TO and players were walking towards their benches. Right in front of the Iowa bench, Harding had his forearm up into the chest of a Hawks player. They stood to eye to eye for a moment until a ref and other Iowa players came into separate them.
I think most agree that many of the starters came out flat and Dix with four newcomers came in with a spark and Iowa never looked back.
Im including Krikke when I say forwards.
Regardless of yesterday that's not a lineup that will work on either end against real teams. Too many redundant weaknesses.
Mix them up with players that compliment them better.
I'd still like to see Mulvey given more meaningful minutes to see what he can really do. That's what these non-conference games are for, aren't they? Krikke can't jump more then 2 or 3 inches off the floor and is not quick enough to stay with his defender in close quarters. Patrick doesn't have to fortitude to go amongst to trees and rebound unless it falls in his lap and Payton is just not a power forward although he's not afraid of getting his nose dirty trying to corral a rebound.
I can see this team having a 2017 type season but because the Big Ten is so strong, I'm less and less inclined to think 20 wins are a stretch.
If Iowa is to really make a mark in the Big Ten this year the 4 freshman will have to be utilized to the max. Dembele and Freeman have to be on the court together, both bring quickness, strength, and toughness that I just don't see from Krikke or McCaffery. Pryce and Payton will have to be the primary gunners will little let down from game to game and Brock and Desonte will have to work together to lead the team as both have assets that Iowa needs.
It's going to be an interesting year as Iowa could end up with a record that could go either way depending on how Fran uses his roster, I just don't thrust him though....
The best defensive lineup IMO is Dix, Perkins, Payton/Pryce, Ladji and Freeman. And maybe that's a lineup that we see quite a bit of.
Again, it's just a scrimmage game so I'm sure we are over-analyzing some things, but I think the biggest takeaway is that Krikke is going to have to be very efficient on the offensive end of the court to make up for his defensive woes and Bowen probably shouldn't be on the court at the same time as Krikke.
Mulvey has been given every chance to show something in practice and even last year when Iowa needed a big out there at times. Fran felt Kingsbury was a better option. He's just not a high D-1 player.
Totally agree with giving Mulvey more minutes, during these types of games. I would love to see Freeman starting at the center position, and Mulvey spotting him minutes. Let Krikke be a power forward, with Dembele coming in for him. I can't say Mulvey would be any good, but I haven't seen anything yet that says he's that bad. He's got size, moves well, and knows how to play the center position good enough to see how he does against a team like Quincy. In watching his high school games, he came in pretty good. Has he not improved at all. Apparently not. But it would be nice to see a true center, 6' 11'' Freeman, with 6' 11'' Mulvey at the back of our defense, just to see what they can do against some of this weaker competition. Buy the way. I loved seeing that high low action with him and Brauns.
I think Mulvey is resigned to being a practice guy. Which has it's usefulness for getting other guys ready for in-game specifics. He may not be D1-worthy but he's important for those January/February practices in conference season.
sorry wrong button. Sometimes practice can look like an AAU game. All offense no defense. It makes you look bad being at the back of the defense with constant breakaways coming your way. I don't like giving up on a guy until he gets a chance at real game experience. I don't know if it's him or the coaching staff, but it's hard to believe he hasn't improved at all.
At the risk of being insensitive, but not really intending to be, does Patrick's past fight with cancer still hinder him a lot physically? He is basically a 2 in a 4's body, and that really makes it hard to create "the best lineup", if he is going to be part of it. He has talent. I just hoped that after a few years, he would be able to go to battle inside with other guys his size, instead of hanging around waiting for someone else to get boards and defend the basket. We have really good depth this year, so there are a lot of alternatives.
I watched the same version. This team flunks the "eye test" in terms of being able to compete in the top half of the BIG.
Hope I am wrong.
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