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Will Jack McCaffery end up at Iowa in the end?

Nobody is saying that. What they are saying is that it was clear how much better Keegan was than advertised the minute he stepped on campus. Of course he got better every year but it's not like he could barely dribble and chew gum at the same time. He was better than Patrick from the minute he got to Iowa. And while Kris was a little behind the gap just wasn't that far.
It was obvious Keegan was the best nba prospect on the team after his first month.

Not obvious that he was a lottery pick or that he would be a great scorer, that wasn't until next year, but it was obvious he had the type of game that fits the nba mold.
 
Thats not even remotely close to reality.

That Oregon team was no where near the level of teams like Baylor or even Gonzaga in terms of quickness and athleticism.

Oregon got blown out the next game by USC who then got blown out by Gonzaga who turned around and got blown out by Baylor.

Its not that that particular game was a choke its that the season was a choke.

Fran played Connor, Jbo and CJ all year, and left Toussaint, Perkins and Kris on the bench and didn't start Keegan.

He surrounded Garza with a bunch of other bad defenders when Luka Weiskamp and Keegan could have carried two poor shooting guards if those guards could have played defense.

Iowa got destroyed by Oregon because of the complete lack of ability to defend by the back court.

Guys like Izzo sacrifice wins early to gain give their young talent the experience necessary to maximize potential at the end of the season. Fran usually takes the opposite approach and the results are consistent.
This.......
 
I won't even bother with what a joke PM starting and playing more than KM in 21-22. If you can't acknowledge Fran's nepotism and how it has undermined the success of the program at this point you're just delusional. Coming from the guy who tried to say college wrestling is more popular than women's bb a few months ago that would be BAU, JFC
I agree that Keegan should have started all of the 2nd half of his freshman season, but I will state that Kris coming off the bench in '22 was an unfortunate necessity due to having 0 front court depth. Keegan, Rebracca and Kris basically were a 3 man rotation at the 4/5. Now I think you could blame Fran on not filling that final scholarship with another portal big man, but the rotations made sense once you realize that Ogundele and Mulvey were unplayable.
I'd also remind everyone that Kris averaged a foul every 5 minutes of playing time that season--part of that was because he was forced to guard centers part of the time, but he also had a really poor habit of reaching in when he guarded smaller players as well. Something he greatly improved last year.
So if you argue that Kris should have started, it likely means that Rebraca comes off the bench--not Patrick, because of how the roster shook out.
 
You should really stick to wrestling where you might have a clue because basketball just isn't your thing. You thinking you can make an assessment of KM his FR yr when he played in 13 of 31 games and averaged 3.2 mins in mostly mop up time is comical. None of us really can because he wasn't really given a chance buried behind the coach's kids and others.

If you could watch that season and not say the Keegan should have been starting and playing more minutes than Connor, especially down the stretch when Connor was injured and basically worthless then you are really clueless about the sport. The eye test was blatant, especially on D, but so was Keegan's 7.2/5.1 in 18 mins vs Connor's 3.3/3.1/3.6 in close to 23 minutes. Keegan's fg pct was .506, Connor's was .324

I won't even bother with what a joke PM starting and playing more than KM in 21-22. If you can't acknowledge Fran's nepotism and how it has undermined the success of the program at this point you're just delusional. Coming from the guy who tried to say college wrestling is more popular than women's bb a few months ago that would be BAU, JFC
Ya - I try to let the professionals who spend their entire lives/careers at something make the decisions. And since you brought it up, to me it was irrelevant who played ahead of Kris. But I guess you were at all of the practices and workouts so you should have been consulted. Typical.
 
Try and quote to appear intelligent? Lol, what? Weird.

You have an opinion and I think its stupid. Thats that.

Theres nothing about an exchange with you that is thought provoking or interesting.
Yep - I feel the same way about you and others who don't have a clue what it's like to see a big picture. You might know a little bit about basketball, but being an administrator of something that has to make big picture decisions - not so much. It's so easy to say something should have been done when unless I'm completely wrong, you weren't there. You weren't at the practices. I'm sure in your eyes Michael Jordan should have started varsity when he was in 8th grade. I mean, he is the best of all time so of course he should have been a starter then too. Fire away - being an opinionated wanna be is really your calling.
 
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You should really stick to wrestling where you might have a clue because basketball just isn't your thing. You thinking you can make an assessment of KM his FR yr when he played in 13 of 31 games and averaged 3.2 mins in mostly mop up time is comical. None of us really can because he wasn't really given a chance buried behind the coach's kids and others.

If you could watch that season and not say the Keegan should have been starting and playing more minutes than Connor, especially down the stretch when Connor was injured and basically worthless then you are really clueless about the sport. The eye test was blatant, especially on D, but so was Keegan's 7.2/5.1 in 18 mins vs Connor's 3.3/3.1/3.6 in close to 23 minutes. Keegan's fg pct was .506, Connor's was .324

I won't even bother with what a joke PM starting and playing more than KM in 21-22. If you can't acknowledge Fran's nepotism and how it has undermined the success of the program at this point you're just delusional. Coming from the guy who tried to say college wrestling is more popular than women's bb a few months ago that would be BAU, JFC
And again, I don't care who he played. You have such a hard on about McCaffery playing his kids and I don't care. I'm just not that big of a McCaffery fan but I do pretty much know he is bit more up on the game than me or you. You state that you can't make an evaluation about someone who only plays mop up minutes yet you constantly state KM should have played more. Based on what? And it can't be what he did during the next season. Jumps are made, significant ones at that age. You can't have it both ways. But of course, because I am a wrestling fan that immediately makes my opinions invalid and can't understand bball. You should take your own advice.
 
I agree that Keegan should have started all of the 2nd half of his freshman season, but I will state that Kris coming off the bench in '22 was an unfortunate necessity due to having 0 front court depth. Keegan, Rebracca and Kris basically were a 3 man rotation at the 4/5. Now I think you could blame Fran on not filling that final scholarship with another portal big man, but the rotations made sense once you realize that Ogundele and Mulvey were unplayable.
I'd also remind everyone that Kris averaged a foul every 5 minutes of playing time that season--part of that was because he was forced to guard centers part of the time, but he also had a really poor habit of reaching in when he guarded smaller players as well. Something he greatly improved last year.
So if you argue that Kris should have started, it likely means that Rebraca comes off the bench--not Patrick, because of how the roster shook out.
Be careful making too much sense here! Good post.
 
here are the stats for CMac when the twins were FR.
22.8 MPG, 3.3 PPG, 3.1 RPG. 3.6 APG, 0.6 SPG and 1.0 TO's per game
these were the stats for PMac
14.6 MPG, 5.2 PPG, 2.7 RPG, 0.9 APG, 0.4 SPG and 0.4 TO's pg
yeah their mpg were sure a waste if time from a pair of top 100 4*'s by ESPN with PMac being a top 100 4* by Rivals,

you must be one of those that hate 4* players on this team.
Okay, you have to be a troll account. There’s no way you are this stupid.
 
Okay, you have to be a troll account. There’s no way you are this stupid.
only with your hatred can be you this stupid to fight with the actual stats of who got what for minutes in the Twins FR season.
but to add to this here were a couple other players that played before the Twins did.
Nunge 15.9 mpg, 7.1 ppg, 5.3 rpg, 1.3 apg, 0.3 spg and 0.9 bpg
Perkins 6.1 mpg, 1,6 ppg, 1.3 rpg, 0.7 apg, 0.2 spg, 0.1 TO pg.

ahh to ****ing bad that Keegan did not start and Kris didn't get the minute per game like you are demanding,

that 20-21 team went 22-9 and 14-6 in BT Play, you really are pathetic,
 
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here is some more stats
Pat 83 rebounds, 28 assists, 13 to's and 12 blocks
the great and all powerful Kris
8 rebounds, 2 to's, 1 steal and 1 block.

yeah a really great player as a FR. GEE NOW how could I not see his greatness that would make him a 1st rnd Draft pick

and that Pat was such a lousy player.

from day it has always been nepotism as the reason why he was allowed to play, why is it you know nothing posters will always bitch and moan about Par and Connor all because they were are Fran's son's

when its been proven over a over again that their are son's and daughters playing for their parents that are college coaches,
 
Good points. I guess I don't care about starting as much as the minutes and I wannt the best all around players on the floor. I don't think there is anything Pat could do that Kris can't whether you call it the 3 or 4 and you'd get less out of control floaters and way better defense with KM, that's all.
I agree, but Iowa didn't have the luxury to play Kris as anything more than the role that he did. Again, Kris and/or Filip were constantly in foul trouble that whole season. So there were multiple games that their minutes were greatly effected by that.
And hindsight is always easy to look back on different things that could occur. Hard for me to say the rotation had too many problems when Iowa was 11-3 in February and March. Obviously they didn't win the final one where it counts, but if you look at analytical rankings Iowa was a top 10 team the final 2 months of the season.
 
JFC, I literally said no one could make an assessment on KM his freshman year because of how little he played and only said he should have played more his sophomore year. Is it just reading comprehension that is a problem for you or are you just slow in general?

I'm glad you have so much faith in a professional who has never been able to advance to a sweet 16 in almost 3 decades of being a head coach. You don't have a history of postseason futility like that without making some mistakes and IMO personnel is right behind dogshit defense in that regard.

I'm a wrestling fan too but I don't go on that board trying to act like I know more than I do when basketball, football and baseball are the ones I've had by far the most experience with. At this point you've had so many ridiculous takes I don't care what you think, feel free to put me on ignore and I'll skip over your BS in the future.
who was he siupposed to take minutes away from Keegan played the 4 which is the same position as Kris Philp played the 5 so realistically those were the only 2 players who actually started over Kris. Pat was the 3rd leading scorer that season,

way way to much hatred for Patrick with no real reason other than he is Fran's son.
 
Yep - I feel the same way about you and others who don't have a clue what it's like to see a big picture. You might know a little bit about basketball, but being an administrator of something that has to make big picture decisions - not so much. It's so easy to say something should have been done when unless I'm completely wrong, you weren't there. You weren't at the practices. I'm sure in your eyes Michael Jordan should have started varsity when he was in 8th grade. I mean, he is the best of all time so of course he should have been a starter then too. Fire away - being an opinionated wanna be is really your calling.
You said you knew Kris wasn't a good player his first year based on a tiny sample size of garbage time. I said thats not enough evidence for an informed opinion.

Now you've completely changed the criteria to it being about practice and trusting coaches vs what you saw in garbage time minutes.

This would be an example of why I don't find this debate interesting.
 
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who was he siupposed to take minutes away from Keegan played the 4 which is the same position as Kris Philp played the 5 so realistically those were the only 2 players who actually started over Kris. Pat was the 3rd leading scorer that season,

way way to much hatred for Patrick with no real reason other than he is Fran's son.
Ok, last time I'm replying to your ridiculousness....no hatred for Patrick whatsoever, he just wasn't close to as good as the Murrays in any way and his defense was a downright liability at times. Keegan 3, Kris 4, Fil 5 even though he wasn't a 5. Let both CM and PM come off the bench and play plenty but not be focal points. PM coming off bench and playing short spurts with his conditioning issues has always made sense.

Your consistent habit of completely mischaracherizing posts and downright putting words in people's mouths in ridiculous and annoying AF
 
then why do you insist on making yourself look stupid, and you keep showing how much hatred for Patrick. you do this by ignoring what Patrick did while on the court.,

another poster suggesting that JBO should have been coming off the bench why in the hell do they even suggest this shit? IA and the BT leader in made 3 pointer make him sit and JBO was IA's all time leader in assists.

now that is true hatred of a IA player,

don't give me this bull shit of this is not hatred because it is, also if Kris was this surefire 1st rnd draft pick as a FR why didn't he leave as a FR? AFTER all he is the greatest BB player of all time . not hating just want answers from all expert talent paid NBA scouts
 
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then why do you insist on making yourself look stupid, and you keep showing how much hatred for Patrick. you do this by ignoring what Patrick did while on the court.,

another poster suggesting that JBO should have been coming off the bench why in the hell do they even suggest this shit? IA and the BT leader in made 3 pointer make him sit and JBO was IA's all time leader in assists.

now that is true hatred of a IA player,

don't give me this bull shit of this is not hatred because it is, also if Kris was this surefire 1st rnd draft pick as a FR why didn't he leave as a FR? AFTER all he is the greatest BB player of all time . not hating just want answers from all expert talent paid NBA scouts

You know I think I prefer your brother @karnack1956 over you. He’s a tad funnier.
 
then why do you insist on making yourself look stupid, and you keep showing how much hatred for Patrick. you do this by ignoring what Patrick did while on the court.,

another poster suggesting that JBO should have been coming off the bench why in the hell do they even suggest this shit? IA and the BT leader in made 3 pointer make him sit and JBO was IA's all time leader in assists.

now that is true hatred of a IA player,

don't give me this bull shit of this is not hatred because it is, also if Kris was this surefire 1st rnd draft pick as a FR why didn't he leave as a FR? AFTER all he is the greatest BB player of all time . not hating just want answers from all expert talent paid NBA scouts
Support Iowa players and coaches…. Unless they are named Murray or Heller.
Why do much profanity? Does your hypocrisy have a limit or is it endless?
 
Agree, Fran shitting the bed with actual big men post Garza forced KM and FR to play out of position much of the time and often forced them into foul trouble. I would have liked to have seen O play a tad more than he did but he wasn't going to be a big factor either way.

In 21-22 I still would have gone with JT, Perk, Keegan, Kris, Fil as the starters and let JBo, CM, PM, Sandfort, Ulis, O sub in as needed to start the season. Obviously swapping out JT for JBo as starting point was a season changer that I wouldn't have come up with and Fran deserves a ton of credit for that.

I said "play the Murrays together, they are a 2 headed monster" to my friends over and over that season. Just my opinion, we will never know how that could have turned out but we know now that the Kings definitely wanted both of them. You put your best players on the floor as much as possible and the Murrays were clearly those guys.

Nunge should have been a (RS) Jr on that roster before transferring to Xavier. That left of a huge hole in the bigs rotation.
 
You said you knew Kris wasn't a good player his first year based on a tiny sample size of garbage time. I said thats not enough evidence for an informed opinion.

Now you've completely changed the criteria to it being about practice and trusting coaches vs what you saw in garbage time minutes.

This would be an example of why I don't find this debate interesting.
For F sake have some comprehension skills. I said he wasn't a good D-1 level player as a freshman. I also said, that you conveniently ignore, is he worked hard and got better. He deserved everything he earned. You try too hard to make yourself look good and only the mindless seem to agree with you. Show me one, just one post that said anything close to KM needing more minutes as a freshman. So to say that I was one of the only ones who felt that way at the time is simply moronic.

Yes, I trust the coaches to make the decisions. They see what goes on in practice, which is also what I said. You know, the people who have made this a career. Unlike you, who thinks he should be making the decisions but has no responsibilty for them.

You don't debate anything. You have all the tendencies of a think skinned bully. All of them.
 
JFC, I literally said no one could make an assessment on KM his freshman year because of how little he played and only said he should have played more his sophomore year when he would have been drafted. Is it just reading comprehension that is a problem for you or are you just slow in general?

I'm glad you have so much faith in a professional who has never been able to advance to a sweet 16 in almost 3 decades of being a head coach. You don't have a history of postseason futility like that without making some mistakes and IMO personnel is right behind dogshit defense in that regard. I'm not saying Fran's kids shouldn't have played a significant role but we are talking about the only two first round picks since I was in school there in the late 90's vs two guys who really have no future playing basketball unless Pat catches on overseas. It shouldn't be that controversial.
It's funny how the Fran haters seem to think I am such a proponent of him as a coach. You look for anything and everything to jump on if it is even close to showing a level of support. (that's you too Dean) I don't necessarly think he is a good game coach. What he is good at is an evaluater of talent. As far as comprehension skills, you like to pick apart comments made and don't take the time to see the initial comment. I made a comment about Perkins and Ulis being irrelevant - because they weren't relevant to a response made to my initial comment. Not because I was defending anyone else.

Do I think the roster dictates who plays when and where, absolutely. Some times that meant Connor had to be in the game for ball control and passing. Something he was very good at, was needed for the team at that time, and there wasn't anyone better at it sitting on the bench. Passing from the exterior isn't a strength of KM now. But in your world, because he was a better NBA prospect, he should have been put in that position anyway, OK.
 
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For F sake have some comprehension skills. I said he wasn't a good D-1 level player as a freshman. I also said, that you conveniently ignore, is he worked hard and got better. He deserved everything he earned. You try too hard to make yourself look good and only the mindless seem to agree with you. Show me one, just one post that said anything close to KM needing more minutes as a freshman. So to say that I was one of the only ones who felt that way at the time is simply moronic.

Yes, I trust the coaches to make the decisions. They see what goes on in practice, which is also what I said. You know, the people who have made this a career. Unlike you, who thinks he should be making the decisions but has no responsibilty for them.

You don't debate anything. You have all the tendencies of a think skinned bully. All of them.
Spot on Herby impersonation. Well done.

If there's one thing that's less interesting than someone moving the goal posts and using staw mans its unhinged angry tirades.
 
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Jerry Seinfeld Popcorn GIF by Sheets & Giggles
 
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I think we all know why Jack decided long ago that he wasn't coming to Iowa and it wasn't that he didn't like the coach or the coach's family.
 
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I think we all know why Jack decided long ago that he wasn't coming to Iowa and it wasn't that he didn't like the coach or the coach's family.
Since you said "long ago" I'm guessing you mean how Margaret and Fran felt about their other 2 kids playing in Iowa City. (not the accident) Fran will hang it up in the next 2 years.
 

Will be interesting to see how much PMAC plays at Butler. I don't know Matta's situation but he doesn't look like the healthiest guy out there. There might be opportunity for Fran at Butler, but Fran's style is not inline with a school more known for slower/deliberate pace and defense. Fran can always go to another mid major and bring in Jack.
 
Why wait so long?
I honestly think Fran loves coaching and Iowa has been very good to him over the years. He’s not going to move on without giving plenty of professional courtesy for Iowa to plan and hire his replacement.

I had totally forgotten that Pat will be at Butler this upcoming season, but barring something unusual he won’t get an opportunity to play with Jack there.
 
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