Penn Grades

[artradley]

so some of you guys are saying... The best thing we can do when the team is winning but not looking good when doing it...is to Trash the wrestlers then call for a coaching change and speculate on future coaching prospects? Honestly we can poke fun at carl and what they are doing but the reality is this.... Its a MONEY ISSUE... with his unlimited recruit buying power he can over recruit and over pay for talent and essentially make the rest of the country look like fools when they try to stay loyal to their already onboard wrestlers and field a competitive team. I mean even if a couple of the Top P4P recruits don't pan out for them...they hit the portal and get the best available Free agents to fill their gaps. Lets start with the new facility then we have the fresh face of Iowa wrestling with Gabe and Drake and maybe next year's top recruit Angelo Ferrari !! start a damn recruiting rush and have Spencer in play a Hell of a lot more. We need to put the new Iowa look out there and make some damn noise... we have the program we just need the interest in it from the perspective recruits.

It’s not entirely a recruiting issue. To the extent they do have trouble recruiting I think it has been self-inflicted, because their attitude has always seemed (from my distant perspective) that it is a privilege to wrestle for Iowa so the coaches should not have to sell themselves, the program, or the university. Wrestlers should simply want to come here, and those who don’t are not wanted.

But in addition we’ve had top-10 and top-20 guys who never made it to a championship finals, let alone become champions. I realize fans tend to mainly see the flaws, but I feel our top recruits simply don’t progress.

 

[A Fist Full of Hawkeyes]

Max Gallagher is a tough wrestler. A win over him is nothing to be ashamed of. Drake gave up a late takedown when he was pushing too hard to score. Gallagher has wins this year over Eddie Ventresca, Robbie Howard and teammate Ryan Miller (who was an NCAA qualifier and a tough opponent).

Wtf happened to Howard. Justifiably we question Drake, but can you imagine how rough this would be if we had actually landed Howard? 4th year in the room and he looks completely broken, but he does still have time to turn things around... but not much before Cael completely gives up on him.

 

[jneffer]

so some of you guys are saying... The best thing we can do when the team is winning but not looking good when doing it...is to Trash the wrestlers then call for a coaching change and speculate on future coaching prospects? Honestly we can poke fun at carl and what they are doing but the reality is this.... Its a MONEY ISSUE... with his unlimited recruit buying power he can over recruit and over pay for talent and essentially make the rest of the country look like fools when they try to stay loyal to their already onboard wrestlers and field a competitive team. I mean even if a couple of the Top P4P recruits don't pan out for them...they hit the portal and get the best available Free agents to fill their gaps. Lets start with the new facility then we have the fresh face of Iowa wrestling with Gabe and Drake and maybe next year's top recruit Angelo Ferrari !! start a damn recruiting rush and have Spencer in play a Hell of a lot more. We need to put the new Iowa look out there and make some damn noise... we have the program we just need the interest in it from the perspective recruits.

if this is true - and it's just a MONEY ISSUE - then why are we spending $20+ million, all from private donations, on a state of the art, all the bells and whistles facility?

real questions need to asked...wouldn't that money be better spent on athletes? its not like the current facility was falling apart (like UNI)

 

[MAGAman]

if this is true - and it's just a MONEY ISSUE - then why are we spending $20+ million, all from private donations, on a state of the art, all the bells and whistles facility?

real questions need to asked...wouldn't that money be better spent on athletes? its not like the current facility was falling apart (like UNI)

Man i gotta agree. Carver as is now is better than most

 

[Redm18]

if this is true - and it's just a MONEY ISSUE - then why are we spending $20+ million, all from private donations, on a state of the art, all the bells and whistles facility?

real questions need to asked...wouldn't that money be better spent on athletes? its not like the current facility was falling apart (like UNI)

I have never fully toured the wrestling facilities deep within the guts of Carver but I have been to open practices a few times. The facilities are certainly nice and are not in anyway falling apart however they do not give off the vibe of a top shelf college program in the 2020's especially when you consider now that those facilities need to meet the needs of two programs. Money spent on this new facility will help the program for a generation of wrestlers not just a decade or so of them which I think would likely by what 20 million dollars would be in NIL money. I also highly doubt that the donors that provided for the new facility would have provided the same money for NIL contracts for wrestlers so I don't think it' an either or proposition. Also while PSU has more money than the Iowa program please do not fool yourself into thinking that the only reason they are better is because they have more money.

 

[Redm18]

A Fist Full of Hawkeyes said:
Chittum and his daddy were looking for an escape route and found one in Dresser. There was nothing Iowa could do to keep him around because TNT wouldn't buckle to their demands. No coaching staff can allow a wrestler (let alone one that hasn't even enrolled OR signed an NLI) and dada to control their program.

I will die on that sword.
Could not agree more Chittum's family would be a cancer on the program and they did a favor in leaving.

 

[jneffer]

I have never fully toured the wrestling facilities deep within the guts of Carver but I have been to open practices a few times. The facilities are certainly nice and are not in anyway falling apart however they do not give off the vibe of a top shelf college program in the 2020's especially when you consider now that those facilities need to meet the needs of two programs. Money spent on this new facility will help the program for a generation of wrestlers not just a decade or so of them which I think would likely by what 20 million dollars would be in NIL money. I also highly doubt that the donors that provided for the new facility would have provided the same money for NIL contracts for wrestlers so I don't think it' an either or proposition. Also while PSU has more money than the Iowa program please do not fool yourself into thinking that the only reason they are better is because they have more money.

i get you...and bascially agree

but its a bad look to cry poor over transfer portal/NIL while building the best wrestling facility in the country...this program does not lack money or funds

its a choice program leaders and supporters have made

 

[HawkeyePA]

i get you...and bascially agree

but its a bad look to cry poor over transfer portal/NIL while building the best wrestling facility in the country...this program does not lack money or funds

its a choice program leaders and supporters have made

But when they started the fundraising and the concept of a new wrestling stand alone training facility NIL was NOT legally in play...wink wink for the psu faithful... and PSU and Ohio state had just created some amazing new wrestling facilities that were state of the art...so we felt we had to get into that arms race and then COVID and the missed championship season and all the bad pitfalls that fell into place which have led us to where we are now. Lets get the facility done...lets get a full-time wrestling recruiting coordinator established and on board and get him on the road working his magic and lets make Iowa the wrestling Mecca again !

 

[Redm18]

i get you...and bascially agree

but its a bad look to cry poor over transfer portal/NIL while building the best wrestling facility in the country...this program does not lack money or funds

its a choice program leaders and supporters have made

Who has cried poor other than on this board? I doubt anyone affiliated with the program would claim say the program is poor. On this board though you can note that PSU does in addition to momentum / coaching and geographic advantages they also have more money to spend on there post grad club / regional training center and NIL deals. Iowa has more money to spend on wrestling than the vast majority of college wrestling programs but I do think PSU has more.

 

[Redm18]

But when they started the fundraising and the concept of a new wrestling stand alone training facility NIL was NOT legally in play...wink wink for the psu faithful... and PSU and Ohio state had just created some amazing new wrestling facilities that were state of the art...so we felt we had to get into that arms race and then COVID and the missed championship season and all the bad pitfalls that fell into place which have led us to where we are now. Lets get the facility done...lets get a full-time wrestling recruiting coordinator established and on board and get him on the road working his magic and lets make Iowa the wrestling Mecca again !

agree a new facility was likely just table stakes though we probably could have spent slightly less. I will point out though again that unlike PSU or Ohio State currently our facility will support two world class programs.

 

[ChiPackHawk]

i get you...and bascially agree

but its a bad look to cry poor over transfer portal/NIL while building the best wrestling facility in the country...this program does not lack money or funds

its a choice program leaders and supporters have made

When grants and fundraising is done it is often for a specific purpose(s) and promises are made to honor those wishes. The big donors for this project may have given their money and stated limits to what it can be used on. Go back on your "word" and those funds won't come again.

 

[jneffer]

Who has cried poor other than on this board? I doubt anyone affiliated with the program would claim say the program is poor. On this board though you can note that PSU does in addition to momentum / coaching and geographic advantages they also have more money to spend on there post grad club / regional training center and NIL deals. Iowa has more money to spend on wrestling than the vast majority of college wrestling programs but I do think PSU has more.

when you claim that every recruiting or portal loss is due to money...that's close enough to "crying poor" for me.

maybe not "crying poor", but blaming losses on not having enough money

 

[Redm18]

when you claim that every recruiting or portal loss is due to money...that's close enough to "crying poor" for me.

maybe not "crying poor", but blaming losses on not having enough money

When has that every been a claim by anyone other than a fan? I honestly have never heard an Iowa coach talk about losing a recruit at all.

 

[jneffer]

But when they started the fundraising and the concept of a new wrestling stand alone training facility NIL was NOT legally in play...wink wink for the psu faithful... and PSU and Ohio state had just created some amazing new wrestling facilities that were state of the art...so we felt we had to get into that arms race and then COVID and the missed championship season and all the bad pitfalls that fell into place which have led us to where we are now. Lets get the facility done...lets get a full-time wrestling recruiting coordinator established and on board and get him on the road working his magic and lets make Iowa the wrestling Mecca again !

what was the comparison in funds raised for the HWC vs the new facility?

i thought the big donation came in when cael was hired and that gave them the best funded rtc in the country, so athletes had good chance of support after graduation and the rtc could cherry pick elite guys from other rtcs...and that got the ball rolling

this was all perfectly legal at the time...the HWC did this stuff (support for post grads), just not to the same degree as NLWC

 

[jneffer]

When has that every been a claim by anyone other than a fan? I honestly have never heard an Iowa coach talk about losing a recruit at all.

only talking about fans

 

[mr12182]

What did the Chittum's do to earn the " cancer" label? Please be specific. TIA

 

[HawkeyePA]

what was the comparison in funds raised for the HWC vs the new facility?

i thought the big donation came in when cael was hired and that gave them the best funded rtc in the country, so athletes had good chance of support after graduation and the rtc could cherry pick elite guys from other rtcs...and that got the ball rolling

this was all perfectly legal at the time...the HWC did this stuff (support for post grads), just not to the same degree as NLWC

I think the biggest boost came from the blank check that was given by Ira Lubert and Dribelbis AFTER they hired Carl away and that's when the wrestling camp creative funding came into practice. Don't cry that its nonsense because I've seen it 1st hand. So TWO Donations made to a HS wrestling club in 9000 dollar increments from different Alumni and then 4 PSU kids work a 3 day camp and get 4000 dollars each spending 16000 of the money and the HS gets to keep 2000 dollars and whatever else they make from registration for camp participants and from food and shirt sales...its a sweet deal that was an end around play and the PSU kids got paid for 3 days clinic work...not bad.

 

[jneffer]

I think the biggest boost came from the blank check that was given by Ira Lubert and Dribelbis AFTER they hired Carl away and that's when the wrestling camp creative funding came into practice. Don't cry that its nonsense because I've seen it 1st hand. So TWO Donations made to a HS wrestling club in 9000 dollar increments from different Alumni and then 4 PSU kids work a 3 day camp and get 4000 dollars each spending 16000 of the money and the HS gets to keep 2000 dollars and whatever else they make from registration for camp participants and from food and shirt sales...its a sweet deal that was an end around play and the PSU kids got paid for 3 days clinic work...not bad.

sure...don't know about anyone else, but all the blatant cheating that anonymous internet guys know about but is never actually punished doesn't hold a lot of weight for me

if what they were doing was against ncaa rules, report it...our guys just got suspended for making legal bets, let's not act like the ncaa won't punish violations that are essentially layed in their lap

and if what they did wasn't against the rules, then iowa and HWC could have been doing the same thing (and they were doing camps with the wrestlers serving as counselors)

 

[A Fist Full of Hawkeyes]

sure...don't know about anyone else, but all the blatant cheating that anonymous internet guys know about but is never actually punished doesn't hold a lot of weight for me

if what they were doing was against ncaa rules, report it...our guys just got suspended for making legal bets, let's not act like the ncaa won't punish violations that are essentially layed in their lap

and if what they did wasn't against the rules, then iowa and HWC could have been doing the same thing (and they were doing camps with the wrestlers serving as counselors)

Doing the same thing and having the means in which to do it are two entirely different things.
Are you ponying up $9K for recruits to work some clinics?

 

[HawkeyePA]

sure...don't know about anyone else, but all the blatant cheating that anonymous internet guys know about but is never actually punished doesn't hold a lot of weight for me

if what they were doing was against ncaa rules, report it...our guys just got suspended for making legal bets, let's not act like the ncaa won't punish violations that are essentially layed in their lap

and if what they did wasn't against the rules, then iowa and HWC could have been doing the same thing (and they were doing camps with the wrestlers serving as counselors)

 

[HawkeyePA]

sure...don't know about anyone else, but all the blatant cheating that anonymous internet guys know about but is never actually punished doesn't hold a lot of weight for me

if what they were doing was against ncaa rules, report it...our guys just got suspended for making legal bets, let's not act like the ncaa won't punish violations that are essentially layed in their lap

and if what they did wasn't against the rules, then iowa and HWC could have been doing the same thing (and they were doing camps with the wrestlers serving as counselors)

Well since it was basically more unethical and not technically illegal why would the NCAA act?? I mean their ethics are trash to begin with. I didnt mean to cast a shadow on your Altar Of Cael... he is seated on the left side of the Father if We were to believe all that you say... But then again Joe Paterno said he knew nothing about Sandusky and ....well nevermind

 

[jneffer]

Well since it was basically more unethical and not technically illegal why would the NCAA act?? I mean their ethics are trash to begin with. I didnt mean to cast a shadow on your Altar Of Cael... he is seated on the left side of the Father if We were to believe all that you say... But then again Joe Paterno said he knew nothing about Sandusky and ....well nevermind

not a psu fan, just don't buy everyone that beats us is because of money or cheating

 

[jneffer]

Doing the same thing and having the means in which to do it are two entirely different things.
Are you ponying up $9K for recruits to work some clinics?

thats where we started

the decision by program leaders and supporters seems to be to go all in on the best wrestling facility money can buy...meanwhile HWC hasn't been relevant for guys trying to make a world team outside of 1 weight class since metcalf

its not about how much money is available to the program...we all know how much support there is for iowa wrestling. no other program can match it. the question is what is done with that support and what the priorities are

 

[Redm18]

I think the biggest boost came from the blank check that was given by Ira Lubert and Dribelbis AFTER they hired Carl away and that's when the wrestling camp creative funding came into practice. Don't cry that its nonsense because I've seen it 1st hand. So TWO Donations made to a HS wrestling club in 9000 dollar increments from different Alumni and then 4 PSU kids work a 3 day camp and get 4000 dollars each spending 16000 of the money and the HS gets to keep 2000 dollars and whatever else they make from registration for camp participants and from food and shirt sales...its a sweet deal that was an end around play and the PSU kids got paid for 3 days clinic work...not bad.

I'm not saying this did or did not happen I assume it did based on your statement. I'm sure by the letter of the NCAA rules this was illegal but I honestly don't see a huge ethical issue here and I doubt that it is the reason that PSU has won 10 national championships. I guess I've just assumed that this kind of stuff happens all day every day. 4 grand for 3 days work is a lot but imo not completely unreasonable economically. Let's say your high school wrestling team has a youth club and you decide to run a camp for the kids that come to your youth club and those within easy driving distance so its a day camp. Lets say then you get 150 kids to pay 250 dollars for a 3 day camp. With that you make 37,500 dollars. Say you pay 4 top level guys 4 grand a piece so now your profit is at 21,500. Your high school coaching staff runs the whole thing and gets paid another 2 grand between the 3 of them. So now your are at 19,500. You sell shirts, Gatorade, snacks and what not during breaks and pull in another 2 grand. Now your at 21,500. You spend 1,500 more bucks for your training stuff and now your at 20,000. You force your high school wrestlers to volunteer at the camp all day and then at the end of the day the college kids put on a clinic for your high school team. Suddenly you have cleared 20 grand for your program and your kids get 3 hours of semi private instruction with 4 top tiers guys. To me the economics totally work out and everyone is pretty happy. .

 

[A Fist Full of Hawkeyes]

thats where we started

the decision by program leaders and supporters seems to be to go all in on the best wrestling facility money can buy...meanwhile HWC hasn't been relevant for guys trying to make a world team outside of 1 weight class since metcalf

its not about how much money is available to the program...we all know how much support there is for iowa wrestling. no other program can match it. the question is what is done with that support and what the priorities are

Let me get this straight. Are you saying the money for the facility (or at least part of it) should've been used for NIL money on recruits instead of all of it going to said new facility?

 

[jneffer]

Let me get this straight. Are you saying the money for the facility (or at least part of it) should've been used for NIL money on recruits instead of all of it going to said new facility?

i'm saying that for people - like hawkeyePA first stated - that think this is all a MONEY ISSUE, they should be asking why we're spending more money than almost any team to build a facility that is better than almost any team's facility...(and i understand that funds raised for the facility couldn't just be switched over to other things, that's why i mentioned long term priorities)

maybe other people don't see a disconnect there...i do

 

[Redm18]

What did the Chittum's do to earn the " cancer" label? Please be specific. TIA

I don't have any proof other than what I have seen on the board and I guess external action. Cody originally committed to Minnesota then flipped to Iowa, then flipped to ISU. That is a little concerning right there that the guy is so flip floppy. The rumor was that he left Iowa because his family has bad blood with the Ferrari family. My basic understanding is that the Chittum family is fairly wealthy and they feel that because of that they should get whatever they want. I don't want a guy that would leave the program because of who the coaches allow on the team and I certainly would not a guy in my program whose family thinks that they should control the team in any way. Again this is just my observation based on the moving around and the rumors heard on here.

 

[Muscles1989]

Jerogeosa was that kid

That one hurts as a fan, he was so good, but he needed to do what he felt was best. There’s so many other hammers out there, Iowa needs to get them. Freshman that are ready to knock AA right away, luckily we got one so far!

 

[Nashville_Hawkeye]

It’s not entirely a recruiting issue. To the extent they do have trouble recruiting I think it has been self-inflicted, because their attitude has always seemed (from my distant perspective) that it is a privilege to wrestle for Iowa so the coaches should not have to sell themselves, the program, or the university. Wrestlers should simply want to come here, and those who don’t are not wanted.

But in addition we’ve had top-10 and top-20 guys who never made it to a championship finals, let alone become champions. I realize fans tend to mainly see the flaws, but I feel our top recruits simply don’t progress.

This!!!

 

[Random4598375]

Wtf happened to Howard. Justifiably we question Drake, but can you imagine how rough this would be if we had actually landed Howard? 4th year in the room and he looks completely broken, but he does still have time to turn things around... but not much before Cael completely gives up on him.

With Howard, it's a health issue. Chronic shoulder injuries are tough to overcome, and he's had three since his senior year of HS. He basically has this year get it together. Next year, Luke Lilledahl comes on board, so unless Howard is a title contender (or at least AA caliber) so that they can afford to RS Lilledahl, it's going to be Lilledahl going forward. Braeden Davis has also looked pretty good so far this year.

 

[Libertylover]

agree a new facility was likely just table stakes though we probably could have spent slightly less. I will point out though again that unlike PSU or Ohio State currently our facility will support two world class programs.

Inflation and shortages in building supplies made the project more expensive

 

[Libertylover]

That one hurts as a fan, he was so good, but he needed to do what he felt was best. There’s so many other hammers out there, Iowa needs to get them. Freshman that are ready to knock AA right away, luckily we got one so far!

It did set us back a few years at light weight. It’s almost like a curse to be really good at a sport you don’t care for. Everyone freaks out when you quit.

 

[A Fist Full of Hawkeyes]

With Howard, it's a health issue. Chronic shoulder injuries are tough to overcome, and he's had three since his senior year of HS. He basically has this year get it together. Next year, Luke Lilledahl comes on board, so unless Howard is a title contender (or at least AA caliber) so that they can afford to RS Lilledahl, it's going to be Lilledahl going forward. Braeden Davis has also looked pretty good so far this year.

I'm no world class athlete, but I totally get it. I had major reconstructive surgery on my shoulder in 2017. Lived with a torn labrum for over a decade. I'm hoping and praying he gets healthy and can fully recover because it's awful.

But even during those brief healthish windows it's been a rough go. He was the #1 overall recruit from 2020, yeah? You don't see someone of his caliber striking out often. Especially at PSU.

As you said, he still has time, but not much.

 

[Libertylover]

I'm no world class athlete, but I totally get it. I had major reconstructive surgery on my shoulder in 2017. Lived with a torn labrum for over a decade. I'm hoping and praying he gets healthy and can fully recover because it's awful.

But even during those brief healthish windows it's been a rough go. He was the #1 overall recruit from 2020, yeah? You don't see someone of his caliber striking out often. Especially at PSU.

As you said, he still has time, but not much.

How high was Guillibon ranked in high school. If high ranked guy don’t pan out at PSU, it’s usually a lower weight. They do a great job with upper weights.

 

[Random4598375]

I'm no world class athlete, but I totally get it. I had major reconstructive surgery on my shoulder in 2017. Lived with a torn labrum for over a decade. I'm hoping and praying he gets healthy and can fully recover because it's awful.

But even during those brief healthish windows it's been a rough go. He was the #1 overall recruit from 2020, yeah? You don't see someone of his caliber striking out often. Especially at PSU.

As you said, he still has time, but not much.

Penn State doesn't hit on every recruit (no team does). Just at 125/133, Gullibon didn't really live up to expectations, Suriano got hurt then transferred, Teske got homesick and never really made it anyway, Teasdale flamed out of wrestling altogether, and Hildebrandt hit a wall in the tournaments. Howard was a top recruit, but the only year he's been even moderately healthy - his true freshman year in 21, he was rushed back from a HS injury (because Teske and Teasdale were already gone and PSU had no one at the weight...) and did OK for a true freshman coming off major surgery, but got hurt in the NCAA tournament, which kept him out for all of the 22 season. Then last season, he got hurt again in preseason and didn't wrestle a single match. This year, he's finally "healthy" but he hasn't looked the same. He really hasn't had a chance to succeed yet because of all of the injuries (all of which were shoulder injuries).

 

[Libertylover]

Penn State doesn't hit on every recruit (no team does). Just at 125/133, Gullibon didn't really live up to expectations, Suriano got hurt then transferred, Teske got homesick and never really made it anyway, Teasdale flamed out of wrestling altogether, and Hildebrandt hit a wall in the tournaments. Howard was a top recruit, but the only year he's been even moderately healthy - his true freshman year in 21, he was rushed back from a HS injury (because Teske and Teasdale were already gone and PSU had no one at the weight...) and did OK for a true freshman coming off major surgery, but got hurt in the NCAA tournament, which kept him out for all of the 22 season. Then last season, he got hurt again in preseason and didn't wrestle a single match. This year, he's finally "healthy" but he hasn't looked the same. He really hasn't had a chance to succeed yet because of all of the injuries (all of which were shoulder injuries).

If he would have committed to us, everyone would be blaming Brands for his injuries.

 

[The-Dude-Abides]

Wow. This goes without saying. If you've watched any competition or most interviews its very obvious. Its absolutely ridiculous unprofessional and an awful example to kids. Some of my stuff may be a bit over the too but this topic is spot on by general concessus….fans and non fans. I know so many fans like myself lifelong fans that cant stsnd their behavior. I know legend iowa weestlers that cant stand it. Your one of the unconditional ass kissers of the TT show obviously. I have conditions!

I think you're being unduly harsh on the Brands brothers. I agree that they sometimes have stepped over the line, but take a look at some of the other top coaches as well. John Smith goes ballistic on a fairly regular basis. Even the great stoic Cael threw a frigging chair on the mat at WTT trials in 2017 while his losing wrestler DT kicked the brick around and yelled shit at the ref while J'Den was down injured on the mat. See also Tom Ryan, Mark Manning, and many others. TnT get the heat because Iowa is still the program everyone loves to hate.

As for public speaking, none of these guys accomplished what they have because they got an A+ in freshman rhetoric. Gable isn't the greatest public speaker in human history but that's not why we love him.

Why Cael Sanderson Was Ejected From WTT | #MidnightSnack After David Taylor lost match 3 in the World Team Trials finals Cael Sanderson threw the challenge brick and a towel at the official... | By FloWrestlingFacebook

#MidnightSnack After David Taylor lost match 3 in the World Team Trials finals Cael Sanderson threw the challenge brick and a towel at the official...

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[moug]

When grants and fundraising is done it is often for a specific purpose(s) and promises are made to honor those wishes. The big donors for this project may have given their money and stated limits to what it can be used on. Go back on your "word" and those funds won't come again.

Correct- there is a memo of understanding for every fund that collects $. The funds need to be used for this purpose. The memo can be written vague like for many “sport improvement funds.” Using these funds for something else opens them to claims of fraud.