Recruiting vs psu

[24 so far]

honestly - i'm not trying to ruffle feathers - i don't get why there's so much beef regarding PSU's recruiting or fund raising. both are critical pieces. it's GREAT to recruit well. it's GREAT to have money for the program. It's GREAT to have new facilities.

Alabama, Clemson, tOSU - they have dominated the last ten years in recruiting and have enormous budgets and ridiculous facilities. they've also dominated ON THE FIELD. and no one is putting an asterisk next to their titles. heck, Texas has more money than god and is horrible.

you can't win without good coaching, good recruits, and financial backing. and you guys poo-poo two of the three (while also raising money for a brand new facility, btw).

what am i missing? why are you guys so hell bent on citing how WELL penn state recruited. it's a good thing.

edit to add:

if you're gonna say they are doing it 'out of bounds'....stop.

Cael got his share of really good recruits while at Iowa State, because of him and because of Iowa State's history. They also wrestled in Hilton Coliseum and had some pretty fair attendance at one time, and standing room only with Iowa duals. Stuff any College Wrestling Coach would dream about.

He recruited well at Iowa State, but not remotely close to how he has been for quite some time at PSU, and all he had to do was move a few hundred miles and they magically appeared time after time for a sport that isn't even 100% covered by scholarships. Penn State has always had a decent Program, but people get skeptical.

But with all things being relatively equal, when something seems too good to be true, it usually is for unspecified reasons (been plenty of proof of that in various sports).

I'm typically in the camp that says find a way legally to get better and beat their ass, but we know all playing fields aren't always level, regardless of known advantages. I sure hope in this case it is.

Iowa for sure has had their share of good fortune concerning Wrestling over the years, from Roy Carver to Dan Gable, but even they couldn't pull this level of recruiting off. Things that make you go hhhmmm? Maybe Gable just had a better eye for talent he could develop.

I don't know if Penn State cheats, or just pushes boundaries, but I am skeptical it's all above board. If that makes me a bad person, so be it.

 

[Is_there_vodka_in_heaven]

that's precisely what i meant by 'retroactive'.

if you want to do that, do what was mentioned in here previously and just assign descending point values to the big boarders.

Isn't the point of ranking a class to do so based on expected points they'll earn throughout their career at nationals?

What's the reasoning for ranking a team with 3 guys in the 70s above a team with 1 guy in the top 10?

Seems the objectively best way to do the rankings. The hard part of rankings (and where your expertise is valuable) is figuring out which guys should be ranked where. Not how teams' recruiting classes are ranked based on the number of top guys they are getting. That part could be completely formulaic.

 

[Flying_Tiger]

It laughable listening to Iowa fans complain about recruiting when they recruit better than almost every other program in the country. Throw in some high end transfers at needed weights and that's an incredibly talented lineup. Hard to believe with all those top recruits/transfers, you have to go back to 2017 to find an Iowa NCAA champion not named Spencer Lee.

 

[wasdt21]

what's hard to belive is you live in the garden of eden , but always, always turn up over here in the pits of hell, now that's laughable

 

[Folkstylefan]

Lmao, smalls u realize ur trying to have a rational wrestling discussion on the cesspool

 

[Media Fan]

Yes, that is pretty simple but that’s not what he was saying. He was saying PSU outshined Iowa and despite Iowa winning the whole thing, kids only saw what penn state did. That’s disingenuous and shortsighted. Was it good for psu recruiting that they had 4 champs? Undeniably but that’s been going on for 10 years. Iowa won the whole thing taking down the 50 top 10 wrestlers from every class that penn state gets. It’s meaningful for Iowa and can’t be downplayed by a turd on a burner account. It was a good battle and next year will be even tougher and I don’t know if we will get it done but for the past 2 years, Iowa was #1. We get to enjoy that and Iowa wrestlers earned it. See you next year.

You have to be favored for the team title next year.
My guess would be that with a much younger lineup than yours, that we will improve relative to you, but you will remain a heavy favorite for the team title.

 

[24 so far]

Lmao, smalls u realize ur trying to have a rational wrestling discussion on the cesspool

I don't recall if Willie was among them, and frankly I don't care, but I do remember when Spencer Lee was part of "the field" at NCAA's when trying to predict potential Finalists and what not. So those boys "rational" and ours do conflict from time to time, and for good reason IMO. Part of their gig.

And who could ever forget Jimmy Gulibon.

Also remember there are a number of folks on this site over many years that have followed this sport closely long before Willie and/or the Flo Boys were a twinkle in Daddy's eye. And that's not a slight to them at all, it's just a fact.

I don't think I've ever said a harsh word towards Willie on this site that I recall, but I most definitely will give him/them some static from time to time, just like I would anybody. FWIW. None of it is life or death. Maybe an occupational hazard for smalls, but we all choose our path and deal with it as best we can. Ha!

 

[Media Fan]

I appreciate the hard work you do for rankings, Willie, but I respectfully disagree with the conclusions you draw when you give an overall recruiting ranking for a school. Way too much emphasis is on getting lots of top 100 or top 50 recruits and not enough weight is given to getting top 10, especially a top 1 or 2 or 3.

PSU "only" got Starocci for 2020. Well, Starocci was a top 10 p4p and ended up winning the title as a true fr. One has to figure he's going to add a lot of points for PSU toward future NCAA tournaments.

For the record, and though originally to tOSU, Kerkvliet was the #1 recruit for 2019 and he transferred to PSU.

A prime example of misguided thinking was 2016, when PSU got #1 Hall, #2 Suriano, and #5 Manville but was deemed an inferior recruiting class to NC St, who got #4 Reenan, #6 H Hidley, #42 D Bullard, #43 T Bullard, and #66 T Wilson.

Hall was a dominant #1 P4p and a 2x Jr World FS gold medalist. In his 3 years he made 3 straight finals, winning once. He would've been the favorite in his Sr season 2020, which got cancelled. PSU got their money's worth with Hall.

Look at other guys who've been superstars in collegiate wrestling in recent years, and see their P4P ranking.

Gable Steveson was a consensus #1 p4p class of 2018, and a 2x Jr world FS champ, like Hall. Already he's an ncaa champ and now will be an Olympian. #2 in that class was A Brooks.... who just won the ncaa crown for PSU. #4 was Sasso who was runnerup at ncaa.

2017 had Fix at #1 and S Lee at #2.... they both have been stars, esp Lee (1,1,1).

Class rankings need to change how they weight the individuals.... a few very elite vs 6 or 7 "top 100."

I’ll take quality over quantity for most things in life.

 

[MVPFAN]

It laughable listening to Iowa fans complain about recruiting when they recruit better than almost every other program in the country. Throw in some high end transfers at needed weights and that's an incredibly talented lineup. Hard to believe with all those top recruits/transfers, you have to go back to 2017 to find an Iowa NCAA champion not named Spencer Lee.

Eierman is the only transfer who was high end before coming here. Considering how Long the psu transfer list is you don't have any room to talk.

 

[rossel 33]

lol. you don't have to buy anything. by all means just think what you think and whine about it without research on message boards.

i don't 'have them' at 5th. they have the 5th highest average over that span. if you want to critique it, you'd have to critique the ranking of each year. this is PSU's recruiting class rank since 2010.

2020	7
2019	30 (just starocci)
2018	1
2017	3
2016	2 (could argue #1 over NCST)
2015	18
2014	1
2013	6
2012	18
2011	4
2010	3
2009	5

So Penn St got 2 guys ranked in top 10 p4p (#4 Bartlett and #7 Howard). That's more than any other school, and yet PSU only got a #7 for recruiting ranking in 2020?

That epitomizes what is wrong with class recruiting rankings ... severely underestimating the contribution of a few quality guys and overestimating getting lots of "top 100" guys.

 

[rossel 33]

And to flesh out the continuing story.... looks like Class of 2021 will see PSU get another 2 top 10 p4p guys, again, more than any other school. This time they get the #1 recruit Van Ness and also #3 Facundo.

Seems to me, PSU could be considered as getting the #1 recruiting class ranking in both 2020 and 2021.

 

[24 so far]

And to flesh out the continuing story.... looks like Class of 2021 will see PSU get another 2 top 10 p4p guys, again, more than any other school. This time they get the #1 recruit Van Ness and also #3 Facundo.

Seems to me, PSU could be considered as getting the #1 recruiting class ranking in both 2020 and 2021.

We out-recruited them once in 10 years, the year we got Spencer Lee out of their backyard (they probably only got 2-3 other Top Tens that year but still.....I think it worked out OK for us). I have a sneaky suspicion that one will haunt them for quite some time to come. One can hope anyway.

 

[WPB_lion]

Cael got his share of really good recruits while at Iowa State, because of him and because of Iowa State's history. They also wrestled in Hilton Coliseum and had some pretty fair attendance at one time, and standing room only with Iowa duals. Stuff any College Wrestling Coach would dream about.

He recruited well at Iowa State, but not remotely close to how he has been for quite some time at PSU, and all he had to do was move a few hundred miles and they magically appeared time after time for a sport that isn't even 100% covered by scholarships. Penn State has always had a decent Program, but people get skeptical.

But with all things being relatively equal, when something seems too good to be true, it usually is for unspecified reasons (been plenty of proof of that in various sports).

I'm typically in the camp that says find a way legally to get better and beat their ass, but we know all playing fields aren't always level, regardless of known advantages. I sure hope in this case it is.

Iowa for sure has had their share of good fortune concerning Wrestling over the years, from Roy Carver to Dan Gable, but even they couldn't pull this level of recruiting off. Things that make you go hhhmmm? Maybe Gable just had a better eye for talent he could develop.

I don't know if Penn State cheats, or just pushes boundaries, but I am skeptical it's all above board. If that makes me a bad person, so be it.

There is an undeniable head start in recruiting when Cael became the head coach to the top program in the state with the best wrestling talent in the country. The proximity of the other states with great wrestling talent adds to the advantage. PSU was always a sleeping giant due to the wrestling talent in relatively close proximity to the school. It is comparable to the rise of the University of Miami in football in the 80s and 90s. The school just needed a coach that was able to exploit this concentration in talent in its natural recruiting area. Once the recruiting ball started rolling down hill, the momentum continued to the point where talent from all over the country wants to be part of the program, hence the diversity of the current makeup of the roster.

The point is that being the head coach of PSU is very different from being head coach of the second best wrestling program in Iowa and there are plenty of explanations for the success that do not involve cheating. The accusations of cheating with absolutely no evidence whatsoever makes the accusers look small and bitter. Not a good look.

 

[KidDagger]

And to flesh out the continuing story.... looks like Class of 2021 will see PSU get another 2 top 10 p4p guys, again, more than any other school. This time they get the #1 recruit Van Ness and also #3 Facundo.

Seems to me, PSU could be considered as getting the #1 recruiting class ranking in both 2020 and 2021.

Not sure bout #1 recruiting class for 2020 but def should be higher then #7 for two top 10 p4p... it’s almost a shock to see Bartlett and Howard most likely won’t be one of those title contender all 4 years type of kids we gotten so used to seeing out of PSU p4p top 10 recruits

 

[smalls103]

you could have argued for PSU's 2020 Class as high as 3 but no higher. OKST brought in #1 and #2 P4P. Missouri brought in two Top 10's. And there were several teams that brought in 3 Top 30's (including VTech who had a #6).

But again, i'm not really arguing about rankings. If you think i under rank PSU classes that's one thing, but i don't get the criticism for Penn State (or any other team) for recruiting well. it's literally what they are supposed to do.

 

[fufighters]

There is an undeniable head start in recruiting when

The point is that being the head coach of PSU is very different from being head coach of the second best wrestling program in Iowa and there are plenty of explanations for the success that do not involve cheating. The accusations of cheating with absolutely no evidence whatsoever makes the accusers look small and bitter. Not a good look.

Apparently you dont follow sports at all..but as a rookie poster I'll give you the benefit of doubt.
Every program/athletes that have been busted for cheating have all started with accusations/rumors that took investigations years to verify and finally bring a case against the athletes or University/team.
Being a PSU fan you should realize this with Sandusky case which went on for over a decade.

 

[PSUer1989]

Iowa literally handed out 5 extra scholarships and was fined for it by the NCAA. Yet you don’t see PSU fans saying Gable couldn’t coach, he only cheated. It is embarrassing for you as fans that you insist the only way your program could not finish first every year is if PSU is cheating. Both schools have great programs, get over it.

 

[DonHawkeye]

Iowa literally handed out 5 extra scholarships and was fined for it by the NCAA. Yet you don’t see PSU fans saying Gable couldn’t coach, he only cheated. It is embarrassing for you as fans that you insist the only way your program could not finish first every year is if PSU is cheating. Both schools have great programs, get over it.

He literally didn’t

 

[1stplacehawk]

It's time for both sides to give it a rest. This is tiresome and pointless.

 

[WPB_lion]

Apparently you dont follow sports at all..but as a rookie poster I'll give you the benefit of doubt.
Every program/athletes that have been busted for cheating have all started with accusations/rumors that took investigations years to verify and finally bring a case against the athletes or University/team.
Being a PSU fan you should realize this with Sandusky case which went on for over a decade.

Whatever you say QAnon.

 

[24 so far]

Iowa literally handed out 5 extra scholarships and was fined for it by the NCAA. Yet you don’t see PSU fans saying Gable couldn’t coach, he only cheated. It is embarrassing for you as fans that you insist the only way your program could not finish first every year is if PSU is cheating. Both schools have great programs, get over it.

That's not possible, Wrestling wasn't even invented yet. Duh.

 

[manatree]

That's not possible, Wrestling wasn't even invented yet. Duh.

Wrestling was invented in 1953.

 

[bluroptimo]

I think it’s worth questioning PSU and that’s on PSU, they’re the ones who brought Andrew Long over from suspension at ISU to secure their first championship in 2011; without him they don’t win and Cornell takes home the title.

To me, bringing a troubled Andrew Long into PSU shows “a motivation to win unrestrained by ethics” dating back to 2011. If people want to scrutinize/suggest PSU has creatively skirted the rules since then that’s on PSU they’re the ones who demonstrated a willingness to do it.

 

[KidDagger]

you could have argued for PSU's 2020 Class as high as 3 but no higher. OKST brought in #1 and #2 P4P. Missouri brought in two Top 10's. And there were several teams that brought in 3 Top 30's (including VTech who had a #6).

But again, i'm not really arguing about rankings. If you think i under rank PSU classes that's one thing, but i don't get the criticism for Penn State (or any other team) for recruiting well. it's literally what they are supposed to do.

Your rankings are good Willie TY. And it’s not you under rank PSU class; the point most are thinking is that more value should be placed on top 10 p4p recruits over “top 100” based on recent trends n stats.

 

[MVPFAN]

I think it’s worth questioning PSU and that’s on PSU, they’re the ones who brought Andrew Long over from suspension at ISU to secure their first championship in 2011; without him they don’t win and Cornell takes him the title.

To me, bringing a troubled Andrew Long into PSU shows a “motivation to win unrestrained by ethics” dating back to 2011. If people want to scrutinize/suggest PSU has creatively skirted the rules since then that’s on PSU they’re the ones who demonstrated a willingness to do it.

Carl hates losing more than anything and will do whatever he can to prevent it from happening. Roster more full of top end talent than anyone and a highly ranked 285 recruit in house and boom bring in the #1 recruit at 285 kerk from your rival. Nevills content to sit on the bench. What teams can afford 2 high end 285s in basically the same class? Griffith was supposedly heavy lean to Michigan, wants to move to 174. Now talk on psu board of Michigan out and PSU leading over UNC. Somehow they got money to possibly add another high dollar recruit to a lineup filled with high dollar recruits. Too much smoke.

 

[Gray52]

Really interesting that they also have a "Penn State Wrestling Club". That basically has award banquets. The author compares it to a really expensive "party planning committee"

Yes... basically what it is. They provide fans with party’s, including pre-match socials with chats with coaches, a post-nationals party with the team, and an end-of-year awards banquet. And after that, they provide PSU a check for a couple hundred thousand dollars from anything left over.

Cael got his share of really good recruits while at Iowa State, because of him and because of Iowa State's history. They also wrestled in Hilton Coliseum and had some pretty fair attendance at one time, and standing room only with Iowa duals. Stuff any College Wrestling Coach would dream about.

He recruited well at Iowa State, but not remotely close to how he has been for quite some time at PSU, and all he had to do was move a few hundred miles and they magically appeared time after time for a sport that isn't even 100% covered by scholarships. Penn State has always had a decent Program, but people get skeptical.

But with all things being relatively equal, when something seems too good to be true, it usually is for unspecified reasons (been plenty of proof of that in various sports).

I'm typically in the camp that says find a way legally to get better and beat their ass, but we know all playing fields aren't always level, regardless of known advantages. I sure hope in this case it is.

Iowa for sure has had their share of good fortune concerning Wrestling over the years, from Roy Carver to Dan Gable, but even they couldn't pull this level of recruiting off. Things that make you go hhhmmm? Maybe Gable just had a better eye for talent he could develop.

I don't know if Penn State cheats, or just pushes boundaries, but I am skeptical it's all above board. If that makes me a bad person, so be it.

Yes... Iowa knows the “too good to be true” thing all too well. As in too many scholarships to be true. There were, and it was. One has to wonder if that’s the only reason Iowa won so many titles under Gable?

 

[Iowabandwagon]

I think it’s worth questioning PSU and that’s on PSU, they’re the ones who brought Andrew Long over from suspension at ISU to secure their first championship in 2011; without him they don’t win and Cornell takes home the title.

To me, bringing a troubled Andrew Long into PSU shows “a motivation to win unrestrained by ethics” dating back to 2011. If people want to scrutinize/suggest PSU has creatively skirted the rules since then that’s on PSU they’re the ones who demonstrated a willingness to do it.

They’ve been calling for desanto’s head on bwi since the “incident.” Like they know what ADS said/did. But if Carlos can bring in Andrew long, Iowa should be able to bring in Dayton racer without much static from psu fans.

 

[Gray52]

Carl hates losing more than anything and will do whatever he can to prevent it from happening. Roster more full of top end talent than anyone and a highly ranked 285 recruit in house and boom bring in the #1 recruit at 285 kerk from your rival. Nevills content to sit on the bench. What teams can afford 2 high end 285s in basically the same class? Griffith was supposedly heavy lean to Michigan, wants to move to 174. Now talk on psu board of Michigan out and PSU leading over UNC. Somehow they got money to possibly add another high dollar recruit to a lineup filled with high dollar recruits. Too much smoke.

Any wrestler in America that has any aspiration beyond college would choose NLWC first. The most Olympic and/or world medals, the most money, and now a women’s program. PSU collegiate room offers an opportunity to win a title at any weight. Iowa can offer a great collegiate lightweight room, but currently nothing after college. HWC is a minimum of a full cycle behind every other club.

 

[24 so far]

Any wrestler in America that has any aspiration beyond college would choose NLWC first. The most Olympic and/or world medals, the most money, and now a women’s program. PSU collegiate room offers an opportunity to win a title at any weight. Iowa can offer a great collegiate lightweight room, but currently nothing after college. HWC is a minimum of a full cycle behind every other club.

Can't believe you left out direct access to the Treigning Lab, that's gotta be a big recruiting took as well.........

 

[Descat1]

Any wrestler in America that has any aspiration beyond college would choose NLWC first. The most Olympic and/or world medals, the most money, and now a women’s program. PSU collegiate room offers an opportunity to win a title at any weight. Iowa can offer a great collegiate lightweight room, but currently nothing after college. HWC is a minimum of a full cycle behind every other club.

I think Iowa is simply gearing up for the team that is forthcoming. Let's see what Club is leading in 2024? The NLWC has it going now. Kudos to them. I'm not one to believe that the HWC won't be the power in three years. Let's keep the narrative on College where Iowa has dominated the past TWO years and is favored for year THREE.

 

[MSU158]

you could have argued for PSU's 2020 Class as high as 3 but no higher. OKST brought in #1 and #2 P4P. Missouri brought in two Top 10's. And there were several teams that brought in 3 Top 30's (including VTech who had a #6).

But again, i'm not really arguing about rankings. If you think i under rank PSU classes that's one thing, but i don't get the criticism for Penn State (or any other team) for recruiting well. it's literally what they are supposed to do.

One thing I didn’t see mentioned, but is a HUGE part, is the Immediately filling needs with 4 year starters and so many immediate title contenders. So, it isn’t just about quality over quantity, but that quality immediately filling a spot. I mean look at their results from 165-197.

With the above said, I truly believe the rankings NEED to have an adjustment for the teams NEEDS relative to their graduates. The fact that they keep having top 10 guys across their entire lineup makes a joke of yearly rankings with teams ahead of them that don’t even have a guy AA.

Finally, I say this with no malice or any belief that PSU is cheating in recruiting. Sanderson is a monster name with phenomenal resources at the ultimate location for wrestling. Sanderson at PSU was a match made in heaven and, over time, the rich got richer. Then give all those talents to a guy like Casey and the sky has literally been the limit.

As long as Sanderson is at PSU EVERYONE else will ALWAYS be playing catch-up. The only thing that helps Iowa is they are probably the best organization with the best coaching staff for performing with chips on their shoulders. In their minds Iowa was the best and is still SUPPOSED to be. Having to bite and claw to stay with PSU gives them no time to be complacent. They are doing everything they can think of to adapt and it has been fun to watch.

Hell, talk about constantly changing. Brands just openly talked about injuries and illnesses. I am surprised he wasn’t looking up constantly while doing so, expecting to get struck by lightning!

 

[jammenz]

I'm not sure, but I was a diehard college wrestling fan for a good 15+ years and Bael has all but run me away from the sport. His scummy behavior is really a problem.

What's wrong with throwing a chair at the referee? https://www.flowrestling.org/articles/5066678-why-cael-sanderson-was-ejected-from-world-team-trials

 

[nearfall2]

I wonder why that footage of the most pitiful chair throw ever seems to now be edited out of every clip that is posted. If it had been T or T that small segment would not only be left in but be part of a highlight real. Can anyone find that clip??? You can almost see it in the first clip at about 15 seconds but there was a much clearer video somewhere.

 

[Cali_Nittany]

Eierman is the only transfer who was high end before coming here. Considering how Long the psu transfer list is you don't have any room to talk.

Lugo, who beat Sorensen wasn't high end. DeSanto who gave Lee his only high school loss wasn't high end. Normally, you are fairly rational. Not this time.

 

[cidhawkeye]

Lugo, who beat Sorensen wasn't high end. DeSanto who gave Lee his only high school loss wasn't high end. Normally, you are fairly rational. Not this time.

It depends on your criteria of high end. Cherry picking one match from each? If that works for you then they are high end. Others may look at not placing at nationals prior to Iowa as not meeting the high end standard.

 

[MVPFAN]

It depends on your criteria of high end. Cherry picking one match from each? If that works for you then they are high end. Others may look at not placing at nationals prior to Iowa as not meeting the high end standard.

Exactly, they were not can't miss recruits or proven AA additions to the lineup.

 

[smalls103]

One thing I didn’t see mentioned, but is a HUGE part, is the Immediately filling needs with 4 year starters and so many immediate title contenders. So, it isn’t just about quality over quantity, but that quality immediately filling a spot. I mean look at their results from 165-197.

With the above said, I truly believe the rankings NEED to have an adjustment for the teams NEEDS relative to their graduates. The fact that they keep having top 10 guys across their entire lineup makes a joke of yearly rankings with teams ahead of them that don’t even have a guy AA.

I absolutely do factor in need weights. Which is probably why i had NCST's very high a couple years ago. and PSU's class w/ Manville, i didn't give them hardly any credit for b/c i knew he was gonna be behind someone despite ending #5 on my list.

So i definitely factor it in. That being said, if i err, i err. The end result however, is that the NCAA performances almost exactly mirrors my class rankings, so i feel pretty good about the end product.

 

[MSU158]

I absolutely do factor in need weights. Which is probably why i had NCST's very high a couple years ago. and PSU's class w/ Manville, i didn't give them hardly any credit for b/c i knew he was gonna be behind someone despite ending #5 on my list.

So i definitely factor it in. That being said, if i err, i err. The end result however, is that the NCAA performances almost exactly mirrors my class rankings, so i feel pretty good about the end product.

I didn’t mean to imply you don’t. You definitely do a very good job overall. I just think PSU is often way underrated themselves, simply because they almost always get every guy they want.

 

[rider57]

This thread has me rolling. I have fellow Hawk fans so insecure that they are saying Cael is not a good coach because he recruits to well. Meanwhile the Hawks 1st Title in a decade coincides with several great recruits and good transfers. While also speculating with no proof that Cael cheats to get them. And certainly it's not unreasonable to wonder how he keeps landing these high end recruits with minimal legal funds available. It should also be reasonable to think maybe these high end guys have seen his prior success with the same caliber of recruit and decided they will bypass scholarship money knowing their success will lead to a big pay day @ the Nittany Lion RTC. RECRUITING IS A MAJOR PART OF COACHING! And he still develps those guys.

Then you have PSU fans on the Hawkeyes message board getting in their feelings because Hawk fans aren't on here worshipping at the alter of Cael. They get so in their box about it they accuse the man who has a statue outside of Carver of cheating!

Lol!!! Comedy. Side note, I actually think Gilman going to NLWC cluld hurt them collegiately. Now if PSU offers a small scholly bc they don't have the funds and school "B" offers a full, the wrestler knows he can still make his $ at NLWC on the back end. Maybe that's a reach, but it's a thought.

 

[jammenz]

...And certainly it's not unreasonable to wonder how he keeps landing these high end recruits with minimal legal funds available...

Flipping Mark Hall by giving his dad a cushy non-job starts and ends this discussion.