Recruiting vs psu

[Dont_Just_Dream]

How did your prediction turn out for you? Half the men’s Olympic freestyle team comes out of the NLWC.

Let's not be foolish: Snyder = Ohio State; Gilman = Iowa. You can claim them as NLWC members now, but they were not made there. Snyder was a Olympic and World champ before stepping foot there, and Gilman a world silver medalist.

If Taylor left the NLWC after this cycle, Penn State would still be where he was made. Unless someone improves significantly at a new place, this isn't even a discussion.

 

[WPB_lion]

Let's not be foolish: Snyder = Ohio State; Gilman = Iowa. You can claim them as NLWC members now, but they were not made there. Snyder was a Olympic and World champ before stepping foot there, and Gilman a world silver medalist.

If Taylor left the NLWC after this cycle, Penn State would still be where he was made. Unless someone improves significantly at a new place, this isn't even a discussion.

Both Snyder and Gilman were obviously great wrestlers before they came to the NLWC. However, both came to NLWC because they believed it gave them the best opportunity to improve their wrestling and make the Olympic team.

For Gilman, making the Olympic team is a great accomplishment and is an undeniable feather in the cap of NLWC. I believe he is wrestling better than he ever has.

Snyder is a different animal. He already has an Olympic Gold so the bar is much higher. He came to NLWC because he is no longer the best in the world at his weight class. I think this is the result of improved competition rather than a decline in Snyder's wrestling abilities. Synder came to the NLWC because he knows he needs to improve and he believes the NLWC is the best place to improve. However, his experience at NLWC will only be considered an undeniable success if he is able to get the gold again.

 

[Dont_Just_Dream]

Both Snyder and Gilman were obviously great wrestlers before they came to the NLWC. However, both came to NLWC because they believed it gave them the best opportunity to improve their wrestling and make the Olympic team.

For Gilman, making the Olympic team is a great accomplishment and is an undeniable feather in the cap of NLWC. I believe he is wrestling better than he ever has.

Snyder is a different animal. He already has an Olympic Gold so the bar is much higher. He came to NLWC because he is no longer the best in the world at his weight class. I think this is the result of improved competition rather than a decline in Snyder's wrestling abilities. Synder came to the NLWC because he knows he needs to improve and he believes the NLWC is the best place to improve. However, his experience at NLWC will only be considered an undeniable success if he is able to get the gold again.

Certainly can't argue there is great competition up and down the weight classes with the NLWC/PSU, but I suspect $ played a role in both of their moves to the club. I disagree Gilman making the Olympics is "an undeniable feather in the cap of NLWC." I think that's a real reach; he was already a world silver medalist. He undeniably caught some breaks with the draw, as well as some opponents not being at trials.

 

[CFNiteHawk85]

Both Snyder and Gilman were obviously great wrestlers before they came to the NLWC. However, both came to NLWC because they believed it gave them the best opportunity to improve their wrestling and make the Olympic team.

For Gilman, making the Olympic team is a great accomplishment and is an undeniable feather in the cap of NLWC. I believe he is wrestling better than he ever has.

Snyder is a different animal. He already has an Olympic Gold so the bar is much higher. He came to NLWC because he is no longer the best in the world at his weight class. I think this is the result of improved competition rather than a decline in Snyder's wrestling abilities. Synder came to the NLWC because he knows he needs to improve and he believes the NLWC is the best place to improve. However, his experience at NLWC will only be considered an undeniable success if he is able to get the gold again.

Not to belabor the point, but if you think TG is better than ever, you haven't been paying attention. Snyder looked good against tier 2 competition last weekend. I'll be a believer if he beats Sadulaev again but I don't see that happening. Hope I'm wrong about that. They are both on Team USA so more power to them.

Suffice to say, NLWC is a world class training environment. However, trumpeting these guys around like their success is the product of the NLWC system seems disingenuous.

 

[cidhawkeye]

The rules need to change. Get the refs to call more stalling on wrestlers who just back up all the time waiting for one shot or counter. Don't wait till 30 seconds to go and then call a stall. More should be called in the 1st period to make both men wrestle. WHATEVER...

Or attack earlier rather than waiting until 30 seconds are left and you are down 2. Force the call.

 

[FrontHeadlock2]

Both Snyder and Gilman were obviously great wrestlers before they came to the NLWC. However, both came to NLWC because they believed it gave them the best opportunity to improve their wrestling and make the Olympic team.

For Gilman, making the Olympic team is a great accomplishment and is an undeniable feather in the cap of NLWC. I believe he is wrestling better than he ever has.

Snyder is a different animal. He already has an Olympic Gold so the bar is much higher. He came to NLWC because he is no longer the best in the world at his weight class. I think this is the result of improved competition rather than a decline in Snyder's wrestling abilities. Synder came to the NLWC because he knows he needs to improve and he believes the NLWC is the best place to improve. However, his experience at NLWC will only be considered an undeniable success if he is able to get the gold again.

I disagree with most of this.

Gilman pretty clearly left HWC because of Lee. I can understand that, and perhaps I would have done the same idk. That said, it's hard to evaluate whether his move to the NWLC had any significant impact. He pretty clearly got lucky with Lee and Suriano being out, and avoiding Fix. You can't just reflexively suggest causation when there is only mere correlation. Did he succeed - yes. Was it because of the NWLC - eh, probably not.

With regards to Snyder, I agree he probably wanted better competition and maybe a fresh approach. Makes sense to me. That said, the standard as you've drawn it up is wholly dependent on others. From an athlete's perspective that's fine. But from a fan's perspective in evaluating the move, what we want to see is whether Snyder wrestles to the best of his ability. If he does that, then it was a good move whether he wins or loses. A decision can't be a mistake solely because Sadulaev is just simply better. Sometimes someone else is just too good.

 

[Descat1]

Unless we get guys hurt or sick we are the favorites next year as well. Our entire team will be back and let's hope the Bull stays healthy. PSU has to make up the 15 points they lost by and the points that the Bull can score, a healthy Lee etc. and I wouldn't' say that they will win at 141 or 174 again.... there is much more to break down, with the Ivy League returning, but I don't care if PSU bring in another National Champ via transfer, we will be tough to beat. We have won the last two Big 10's, won the NCAA's.

I do want to say that I have loved all of the crying that the PSU guys are doing. The "we've won the past xx out of yy" only means that you didn't win this year. What's the old saying: if what you did in the past is still being talked about present day simply means that you didn't get it done this year. Take note PSU fans. It's over. We won. I remember back three-four years ago and all of the PSU posters saying Iowa was dead and would never win again in the near future.... Sorry folks. So, keep pointing to the youth, keeping pointing to the last 10-years. We won this year, present day and are in a solid position to repeat. Give credit where credit is due and the fact that many of you won't makes you simply sound like sore losers and I for one am loving it, so keep it coming!

 

[FrontHeadlock2]

I do want to say that I have loved all of the crying that the PSU guys are doing. The we've won the past xx out of yy only means that you didn't win this year. What's the old saying: if what you did in the past is still being talked about present day simply means that you didn't get it done this year.

I absolutely loathe Bael, but I do think it's unfair to have amnesia each and every season.

That said, Iowa was clearly the best team 2 years running, and is likely the favorite for 3 in a row.

 

[just_somebody]

Both Snyder and Gilman were obviously great wrestlers before they came to the NLWC. However, both came to NLWC because they believed it gave them the best opportunity to improve their wrestling and make the Olympic team.

This is undoubtedly true, but not necessarily related to becoming better wrestlers at all.

For TG, its obvious, and already stated - he had to get away from Lee if he wanted to be around people who could make it their mission to beat him. In the end, Spencer's ACLs are the only known things that can slow him down (note, not defeat, just slow down)

Beyond that, I don't doubt that financially NLWC was a better opportunity for TG, and probably Snyder. Getting two high level guys from rivals is quite a feather in the cap and that operation is funded well enough to make it happen.

 

[Gobblin]

Both Snyder and Gilman were obviously great wrestlers before they came to the NLWC. However, both came to NLWC because they believed it gave them the best opportunity to improve their wrestling and make the Olympic team.

For Gilman, making the Olympic team is a great accomplishment and is an undeniable feather in the cap of NLWC. I believe he is wrestling better than he ever has.

Snyder is a different animal. He already has an Olympic Gold so the bar is much higher. He came to NLWC because he is no longer the best in the world at his weight class. I think this is the result of improved competition rather than a decline in Snyder's wrestling abilities. Synder came to the NLWC because he knows he needs to improve and he believes the NLWC is the best place to improve. However, his experience at NLWC will only be considered an undeniable success if he is able to get the gold again.

Naive, uninformed, ignorant post. It’s all about the $, period.

 

[fufighters]

Naive, uninformed, ignorant post. It’s all about the $, period.

Absolutely about money.

 

[MVPFAN]

Both Snyder and Gilman were obviously great wrestlers before they came to the NLWC. However, both came to NLWC because they believed it gave them the best opportunity to improve their wrestling and make the Olympic team.

For Gilman, making the Olympic team is a great accomplishment and is an undeniable feather in the cap of NLWC. I believe he is wrestling better than he ever has.

Snyder is a different animal. He already has an Olympic Gold so the bar is much higher. He came to NLWC because he is no longer the best in the world at his weight class. I think this is the result of improved competition rather than a decline in Snyder's wrestling abilities. Synder came to the NLWC because he knows he needs to improve and he believes the NLWC is the best place to improve. However, his experience at NLWC will only be considered an undeniable success if he is able to get the gold again.

Clown 🤡

 

[Fluffles]

Naive, uninformed, ignorant post. It’s all about the $, period.

Well, Gilman and Snyder got money and are **checks notes** on the Olympic team. It was obviously the right decision, for them.

 

[kijana]

I absolutely loathe Bael, but I do think it's unfair to have amnesia each and every season.

That said, Iowa was clearly the best team 2 years running, and is likely the favorite for 3 in a row.

If it where’re for Covid, Iowa would be losing 6 starters heading into 2021-2022 and most certainly would not be the favorites to win the team championship.

 

[FrontHeadlock2]

If it where’re for Covid, Iowa would be losing 6 starters heading into 2021-2022 and most certainly would not be the favorites to win the team championship.

But they lost out on a likely NCAA title in 2020 too. What is your point? Given what has transpired, they were the best for two years and are the favorite for a third.

 

[Descat1]

If it where’re for Covid, Iowa would be losing 6 starters heading into 2021-2022 and most certainly would not be the favorites to win the team championship.

Wah, wah, wah, and if PSU doesn't grey shirt guys they don't have the same line-up... it's within the rules, so play. or, simply keep, crying. Wahhhhhh, wahhhhhh, wahhhhhh. Keep it coming, I"m enjoying it.

 

[kijana]

But they lost out on a likely NCAA title in 2020 too. What is your point? Given what has transpired, they were the best for two years and are the favorite for a third.

Point being, Covid allowed 6 out of your 10 starters to get an extra year in 2021-22. Iowa would have been looking at a major rebuild this coming year.

 

[FrontHeadlock2]

Point being, Covid allowed 6 out of your 10 starters to get an extra year in 2021-22. Iowa would have been looking at a major rebuild this coming year.

But, again, it also very very likely robbed them of an NCAA title in 2020.

Which would you rather have, the 2020 title or being the favorite in 2022?

 

[24 so far]

But they lost out on a likely NCAA title in 2020 too. What is your point? Given what has transpired, they were the best for two years and are the favorite for a third.

The point? Penn State tears, lots and lots of Penn State tears, I guess their own fans won't give them any sympathy so they think Iowa fans will. F them. Cry away.

 

[kijana]

The point? Penn State tears, lots and lots of Penn State tears, I guess their own fans won't give them any sympathy so they think Iowa fans will. F them. Cry away.

No tears on my end. My team has won 8 out of the last 10 championships and they crowned 4 individual champs in one of their “down” years.

 

[FrontHeadlock2]

No tears on my end. My team has won 8 out of the last 10 championships and they crowned 4 individual champs in one of their “down” years.

I agree with this. No reason for PSU to be in tears.

You can't win every year, nor should a fan want to in any case.

 

[GlenHawk]

No tears on my end. My team has won 8 out of the last 10 championships and they crowned 4 individual champs in one of their “down” years.

Did PSU just add wrestling in 2010 or something? There were plenty of "down" years at PSU before 2020 and 2021.

You're also bragging about winning 8 of the last 10 to Iowa fans who have seen our team win 24 of the last 45 lol.

 

[Cali_Nittany]

Did PSU just add wrestling in 2010 or something? There were plenty of "down" years at PSU before 2020 and 2021.

You're also bragging about winning 8 of the last 10 to Iowa fans who have seen our team win 24 of the last 45 lol.

Some of us aren't as old as you and don't remember the 70s and 80s. (Or maybe don't remember for other reasons...)

Anyway, enjoy the title! As you should. I'm looking forward to finally having a full season and seeing what should be an epic Iowa-Penn State dual.

 

[GlenHawk]

Some of us aren't as old as you and don't remember the 60s and 70s. (Or maybe don't remember for other reasons...)

Anyway, enjoy the title! As you should. I'm looking forward to finally having a full season and seeing what should be an epic Iowa-Penn State dual.

60s? You may want to check the math on that one again. Also, take the 70s away and Iowa has won 20 of the last 40.

I am not taking anything away from PSU's run the last 10 years, but to come to an Iowa forum and brag about 8 of 10 when Iowa is the reigning champ is laughable.

 

[Cali_Nittany]

60s? You may want to check the math on that one again. Also, take the 70s away and Iowa has won 20 of the last 40.

I am not taking anything away from PSU's run the last 10 years, but to come to an Iowa forum and brag about 8 of 10 when Iowa is the reigning champ is laughable.

Ha, yes, I saw my mistake right after I posted it and corrected it. My NCAA wrestling memory goes to 1991 when Gable brought Iowa back for another run after kindly letting some other teams win it.

 

[rossel 33]

one day you two fan bases will realize that both coaching staffs are great people that do great jobs. inso doing you will respect the hard work and dedication to the craft of each other.

but don't do that anytime soon b/c this is far too entertaining.

Beyond that generic pablum, it's clear that PSU's key to success over the last 10 years has been signing more top tier recruits than anyone, and it's not even close.

 

[FrontHeadlock2]

Beyond that generic pablum, it's clear that PSU's key to success over the last 10 years has been signing more top tier recruits than anyone, and it's not even close.

Correct. There was a thread back in 2017 that discussed this. I added the below post

https://iowa.forums.rivals.com/thre...ecruiting-or-development.185432/#post-4214809

I'm sure someone can add to that for recent history, but when you are constantly getting wrestlers who are top 2, 3, 4 in the country as freshman, it's recruiting, period.

 

[wasdt21]

i was pulling for gilman, but if he is so much better now, let's have a 3 man round robin with suriano and spencer. gman gets third place just like he did in france a couple of months ago.

 

[Descat1]

Beyond that generic pablum, it's clear that PSU's key to success over the last 10 years has been signing more top tier recruits than anyone, and it's not even close.

But, today Iowa is #1. They must have done something right.

 

[Menace Sockeyes]

Gilman is what he is and hasn't really changed. The competition was just not as good. He'll be a 4th place wrestler at the Olympics at best. Feel free to rub this in my face if I'm wrong.

 

[GOLDBANGER]

No matter where you sit on the Iowa/Penn State spectrum, and I use the term spectrum because to one degree or another we all have some kind of disorder, I find it interesting that it seems people are hoping for failure of any of our Olympic team members, no matter the color of their singlet in college.

 

[FrontHeadlock2]

No matter where you sit on the Iowa/Penn State spectrum, and I use the term spectrum because to one degree or another we all have some kind of disorder, I find it interesting that it seems people are hoping for failure of any of our Olympic team members, no matter the color of their singlet in college.

I've never understood this. Is it not okay to dislike a particular American athlete?

Furthermore, you can apply this more broadly. As athletes and fans of athletics, we can show respect for athletes throughout the world. I have often enjoyed watching plenty of foreign athletes do well. For example, even though I liked Jamill Kelly, it was really nice to see Elbrus Tedeev win the gold medal in 2004 to cap off what was a VERY strong international career by an excellent wrestler.

While I will generally root for Americans in the Olympics, there are a few I have rooted against across all sports, including wrestling.

 

[CFNiteHawk85]

No matter where you sit on the Iowa/Penn State spectrum, and I use the term spectrum because to one degree or another we all have some kind of disorder, I find it interesting that it seems people are hoping for failure of any of our Olympic team members, no matter the color of their singlet in college.

Meh. I'll root for the USA regardless of college affiliation. I think most here will. However, on a rare occasion, an individual is a real d-bag and it's hard to drum up any interest in his performance personally. Molinaro comes to mind.

 

[Is_there_vodka_in_heaven]

I've never understood this. Is it not okay to dislike a particular American athlete?

Furthermore, you can apply this more broadly. As athletes and fans of athletics, we can show respect for athletes throughout the world. I have often enjoyed watching plenty of foreign athletes do well. For example, even though I liked Jamill Kelly, it was really nice to see Elbrus Tedeev win the gold medal in 2004 to cap off what was a VERY strong international career by an excellent wrestler.

While I will generally root for Americans in the Olympics, there are a few I have rooted against across all sports, including wrestling.

^

It's tribalism. No reason to root for random american olympian who you dislike over an athlete from another country.

I know that philosophy generally won't be agreed with.

 

[CFNiteHawk85]

^

It's tribalism. No reason to root for random american olympian who you dislike over an athlete from another country.

I know that philosophy generally won't be agreed with.

Especially in Olympic Wrestling, which is all about the individual and the term "Team" is used in the most insignificant sense of the word.

 

[moug]

I've never understood this. Is it not okay to dislike a particular American athlete?

Furthermore, you can apply this more broadly. As athletes and fans of athletics, we can show respect for athletes throughout the world. I have often enjoyed watching plenty of foreign athletes do well. For example, even though I liked Jamill Kelly, it was really nice to see Elbrus Tedeev win the gold medal in 2004 to cap off what was a VERY strong international career by an excellent wrestler.

While I will generally root for Americans in the Olympics, there are a few I have rooted against across all sports, including wrestling.

Commie bastard Just curious, is it too late for Suriano to wrestle for Italy?

 

[Inspiteofourselves]

Commie bastard Just curious, is it too late for Suriano to wrestle for Italy?

Or Spencer for France

 

[pablow]

Meh. I'll root for the USA regardless of college affiliation. I think most here will. However, on a rare occasion, an individual is a real d-bag and it's hard to drum up any interest in his performance personally. Molinaro comes to mind.

I'll never root for a Bode Miller. I don't care if he's on the USA team.

 

[Mendoza77]

No matter the sport, in the Olympics I've always cheered for the athlete/team that appeals to me the most, regardless of what country they're from. I always wanted Karelin to win, and hope that Sadulaev wins this year. Always pull for Brazil in volleyball, latin countries in baseball, Argentina in soccer, Canada in hockey, etc.

 

[chuck285]

Or attack earlier rather than waiting until 30 seconds are left and you are down 2. Force the call.

You can force the matches, see Desanto and it still doesn't seem to matter. JMO